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Comment
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Bill Nealon
Aug 20, 07 - 7:06 AM |
Slow play has become intolerable
We had the misfortune to play i the Two ball Open on Saturday. Great food, miserable golf. Round took 5:52 including starting 20 minutes late.
What used to be one of the highlight tournments of the year has disapperaed.
I've been playing here for 20+ years and every year it's been getting worse. The letter campaign is a joke and no sincere efforts by maagement hve happened to voreect this.
I doubt this will improve over the remainder of the eason. Our foursome has decided to call it quits after this year.
There are too many other golfing options available to put up with this.
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Elliot Solomon
Aug 20th, 2007 - 8:54 AM |
Re: Slow play has become intolerable
Bill beat me to the post. I couldn't agree with him more. We had a 10:16 tee time and didn't go off until 10:30. When we got to the 3rd tee, there were two foursomes waiting (one had just hit and was pulling away). We waited on most of our shots. We finished our round at 4:10 - 5 hours and 40 minutes.
Other than one round I played at Minnechaug about 20 years ago, I've never had a round play so long. One member, who teed off at 8 a.m., told me his round took 5 hours to play. Given the format, why didn't they turn off the computer and have people pick up when their partner's score was clearly going to count.
I think the biggest part of the problem is any "major" event (this event and any GOTY event). They're played as if they were true PGA majors and consistently run well beyond the normal pace of play. But I think management needs to step in as well. We need rangers - at least in the major events so they don't turn into marathons. Perhaps mens club members who aren't playing in a major event could serve as rangers and management could flip them a few (3?) rounds of golf on the house (so they're not out of pocket). As for those who say that men's club members won't pay attention to another men's club member who is serving as a ranger, I suspect that wouldn't be the case if the member/ranger has the authority to call a 2 stroke penalty for slow play if a warned player doesn't pick up the pace.
I live 10 minutes from the course. My day of golf (admittedly an hour of which was spent at the pavilion with the ribs guy) was just that - left the house shortly after 9 and got home about 5:30. That's ridiculous.
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Jim Marien
Aug 20th, 2007 - 10:47 AM |
Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
"Given the format, why didn't they turn off the computer and have people pick up when their partner's score was clearly going to count."
Answer :
5.1.c. Scores in All Forms of Competition
Scores in both match play and stroke play must be posted for handicap purposes. This includes scores made in match play, in multi-ball, or in team competitions in which players have not completed one or more holes or in which players are requested to pick up when out of contention on a hole. (See Decision 5-1c/1 and Section 4.)
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Elliot Solomon
Aug 20th, 2007 - 11:03 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
Jim,
As a club, we disregard that rule at least twice a year. We turn off the computer in Match Play I and II. We should do it in an event like this when rounds are approaching 6 hours. We turn in enough scores over the year to have reliable handicaps.
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Jim Marien
Aug 20th, 2007 - 11:11 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
Elliot, I agree. However, when I asked YoPro why we didn't turn off the computer for the Member-Member, as we had done in the past, he told me that "All scores now had to be recorded". I suspect that will apply to Match Play I and II events in the future. Ask him next time you see him.
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Ken Comerford
Aug 21st, 2007 - 8:57 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
Even if scores must be entered, the USGA does allow you to enter hole scores in team or match play that are what you would reasonably have gotten had you played out the hole (e.g. pick up the twenty footer for par after your partner makes birdie, and give yourself two putts for bogey). The USGA does not require that you actually finish every hole in order to turn in a score. Perhaps we need to educate the membership?
Overall, I think there are so many things that contribute to slow play at Tallwood (8 minute tee times, a heavily wooded course, three par threes on the front, tee times that start before 6am) that it makes it difficult to come up with an effective strategy for improving the situation. In my opinion, Tallwood is not a fast golf course to begin with (especially for walkers), and when you play at ten am there are usually 120 or more players in front of you, most of them looking for balls in the woods or along the edges of water hazards, etc. Rounds at that hour that start to approach 5 hours are almost to be expected. Add the member-guest scenario and it only gets worse. I think the strategies that might be effective (fewer tee times, mandatory carts, rangers) are really issues for management to consider, but all have their obvious drawbacks and I don't think they'd be inclined to implement any of them. I think the men's club is doing what it can. As an FYI, on one recent weekend day play was really slow, even at 7:30. When the person at the desk was asked about it, he blamed it on the men's club because no one signed up for the first time of the day and it was thus given to a foursome of "public" who took 4:30 hours. So I'm not sure management looks at this as their problem. I'd be curious to know what the pace of play is like at other public courses in the area and, if it's better, what they have done that works.
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Jim Marien
Aug 21st, 2007 - 10:03 AM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
I agree with Ken : It seems that most members at Tallwood are not aware that you can pick up your ball in a 2-Ball or 4-Ball and simply record your most likely score or simply pick up when you've reached your maximum score for handicap purposes. I encountered this situation in the Member-Member. One of the guys on the other team kept playing until he carded a 10. When I metioned that he could have just picked up, his partner said "No, he must hole out". (So much for that person being a knowlegable golfer !!) I picked up on #16 and took my max of 7 after my partner holed out. So YES, this info should be put in the Newsletter because there's too many Tallwood members that don't realize they don't HAVE TO hole out in 2-Ball or 4-Ball.
Here's a thought : Would be talking about this at all if the front side became the back side and the back side became the front side ? Sure would make it easier to meet that 13 minute rule if the sides were switched.
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Jim Aufman
Aug 21st, 2007 - 2:01 PM |
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Slow play has become intolerable
Ken's comments are very appropriate. You don't have to hole out every time to post a handicap. We do need to publicize this, and educate our members. However, the greatest enemy of speed of play is "dead time". There are too many people who don't begin to think about club selection until everyone has hit, and now it's their turn. Then they begin to look for yardage markers, pace off the distance, etc. The same for putts. Some people seem to feel that they can't read a green until it is their turn to putt and their ball is on the green waiting to be hit. Then begins the plumb-bobbing, etc. Being ready to hit the ball when it's your turn will solve a lot of problems.
One question: Where have we published our Pace of Play policy? I have been searching the website and this year's newsletters and can't find it. We used to send it out with our "Slow Play Letters", but we don't do it anymore.
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Tony Judenis
Aug 21st, 2007 - 12:27 PM |
Re: Slow play has become intolerable
..here is some food for thought. Should be required reading for all members http://golf.about.com/od/golfetiquette/a/slowplaytips.htm
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