Thanks for the input Jude. But you can get some pretty stiff copper and that helps. You may find that bare #8 copper ground wire is stiffer than alum being used on most accordions.

The strength of a wire, copper or aluminum or steel is also dependent on whether or not, and how, the wire was "tempered"

This is inherent to "Cajun" made accordeons and failures are not seen in most Euro made 1 row ten key, two base, 4 reed, bellows driven aerophones known acs accordeons.. copied by Cajun builders.

It is not a design flaw as much as a choice of materials and a design flaw in the Cajun made boxes. It is a case of an expedient builder in history without better materials or design experience making something that becomes a "tradition"... a failed tradition, that continues with modern makers.

Jeez, you're a lot more fun on the mandolin forum and the acoustic guitar Site as well... come on Jeff-san, relax. ;- )

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/19560-Williams-Hwy_Williams_OR_97544_M28301-46490?row=26&source=web

Is that anywhere near you? Do you go to Medford or Grants Pass for shopping? I seriously want to move to Oregon after I retire.... I think... ;- )

Tommy...

I "shop" in Gts Pass and Medford.

Medford is just another town without much character.

Gts Pass is becoming a very cool town.

Applegate Valley is ok.. ther's a north and south valley.


Come visit, you're welcome any time.

I have ragged on thise stupid flappers for almost 20 years.

It is rare to see a Cajun made box with flappers aligned front and back and perpendicular to the keyboard and parallel to pone another.
Add that silly foil and red paint.. yowzah.
The wires were often copper wire for large motor windings. And when the motor builders stoped using copper they went o aluminum, as if that's an improvement either for an electrical application or an accordeon.

Some of this wire (usually copper) was square in cross section and some of the builders used it on the diagonal which gave some increased strength... but when you smash it for the screws... all that goes down the scupper.

This seriously is in need of some improvement.

Hohner had it right and still does.

Castagnari has it right.

Note both of them use hairpin springs rather than coils.. another improvement that the traditionalists will avoid and offer "proof" why coils are better.

I just don't get using the armature wire...

Why not simply use some tempered steel wire of a much smaller diameter ?

Possibly because then you couldn't use those cheezy little screws on the flappers.

Is that better , Tommy ? : )

Well it matches the butt joints right? ;- ) -LLL-

By the way, Williams is a beautiful place!

No question in my mind that making the screw flats weakens the metal. I've done a little experimenting with different alloys, first thinking I needed to use harder metals for the valve arms, and have since learned that the "harder" the metal is, the more brittle it is, which is only natural. I tried some harder metals that just bending it much snapped it. For this reason, I've thought the copper was better when bending and flattening it because being softer, it isn't as fragile. But I know very little about metals.

I can't agree with you on the hairpin springs, Jeff. I know much more knowledgeable builders than me use them, but to me they're harder install, harder to adjust, and more prone to breakage. As far as feel, I've found more difference in axle placement than the type spring. My goal is a snappy button without a heavy tension.

I have owned at least 20 Hohners.. many dating pre war and currently own 3 from the 50's..
Never, not once, have I ever broken a hairpin spring.

Castagnaris use hairpins... I hvae never heard of a Castagnari busting a spring.

Another solution to the wire breaking situation is to lower the angle, hence the length and the flex which is what leads to the failure.

I've replaced some broken Hohner springs. I've learned that how a spring is bent makes a difference in it's lasting ability, along with the quality of the metal itself. Actually, there's a lot I'm still learning.

What is it you don't like about the coil springs? I haven't seen any problems with them, and they sure are easy to adjust.

Hokey little nails. The feel,and the sound of the springs.

Aesthetics that require the fingerboard to "stand off" the table.

This can be gotten around by re design.

I, too, have taken a long look at the Sterling/Monarch paradigm which represents the basis of today's Cajun accordion design. After all, it's generally unchanged over 185 years. By adding a few structural and aesthethic tweaks, adding a few more buttons, and improving the aerodynamics, finish, and sound, here's what I've got:

-LLL- Jeff, when are you going to make some accordions? You have a strong sense of how they should be. I think you should get into production. Not being a wise guy here, I'm serious.

I have been designing, re designing, building components, and generally messing about with the single row for a number of years. New style fingerboards, bass boxes, straps , flapper and actuating mechanisms and pallets and well top secret stuff.

Not known to most of the folks here, I was on the verge of production 3 years ago when I was diagnosed with throat cancer. I dont't smoke,chew, do drugs and at that time had not had so much as a beer for ten years . I sold the majority of my bellows, reeds etc to another forumite and spent the time in treatment and recovery and no clear idea of the future.

This was a life changing event.
I also sold 12 accordeons indcluding 5 Castagnaris as prognosis was "you've got six months, time to get your affairs in order"
I also sold 14 guitars and 2 mandolins and 2 banjos... many of which are rare and unobtainable .. ie not replaceable.
I also sold my 60K mile Intl Model 1010 Custom pickup with 60K miles and my 1974 M-B 450 SL roadster with 63 K miles...
I beat the odds and sadly,(as I blew everything out to spare my wife the tedium of unloading my life's hoarding) and yet welcomed...as of three weeks ago.. cancer free. Three years Dec 17.

I may get back to building.

Meantime I will continue to observe and comment about archaic and crude and disrespectful building design, materials and workmanship as in
butted joints and fixed reed blocks and overly wide bass straps, and hokey nails and coil springs and cheap picture frame hangers for straps and cookie cutter metal corners and all the BS about bincis and unnecessarily over sized boxes and accordeons made by others and branded by famous people and bad mouthing THE standard of 1 rows.. The Hohner HA 114.

No joke.. I have enough wood to build 500 accordeons.. reeds and bellows and hardware available anytime from a number of sources in Italy and Britain at modest prices, as well as the US.

So little time, so many interests.

Not a joke , I owned the identical box in purple with red white and blue bellows and a case with a green fuzz liner.

I sent it to the well known player/builder/repairman and seller of accordeons in Wales.. Rees Wesson. He plays it at "sympathetic" events.

PS Check's in the mail for 25 cents for using "paradigm"... even though Sterling and Monarch were not in biz until the 20th Century, not 1829 when an Armenian immigrant to (Bohemia) Austria "invented" the 10 button accordeon (bisonoric, diatonic, aerophone) the mother of all 1 row 10 button accordeons to follow and every other bellows/reed instrument thereafter.

Thought you might enjoy seeing the keyboard of one of the local musicians.
He brought the accordion to me for a complete overhaul a few years back and this is what the keyboard looked like when he gave it to me.

Copper wires, steel wires, aluminum wires, gobs of epoxy, you name it.
BTW, this was an old Marc Savoy accordion that originally had copper alloy wires.