And when you think, you've seen everything, there it is, in plain view, for all to see!!!!!!.

ebay has a "Cajun king", up for auction, and one of the pics shows a side view of one of the end panels.

I had to look twice at the type of joinery used for the frame corners holding the end panel, and it was as if i was looking at the bottom of a drawer, no more no less!.

Now this type of woodworking joint is called a "Rabbet flush joint", and should "NEVER EVER" be used as to be seen,especially on a musical instrument always hidden at the bottom of a drawer, or the back of most cases, cabinets, book cases and others.

You'll see this type of joinery on the back of an ikea or KD shelves unit, where the manufacturer supplies the buyer with a set of brads to secure the unit back panel.

A gigantic visual "faux pas", very "gauche" indeed.

C.

Play in the dark if it bothers you.

For whatever obscure reasons, I didn't think mediocrity was one of your driving forces.

Obviously, I was wrong!.

C.

Or learn to play at all. You can't pay attention to that crap and play at the same time.

The construction is an overlapping rabbet joint (probably not the right term), not a butt joint...probably stronger than a butt joint, much more glue surface, and perhaps stronger than a mitred joint. I have to say also, that it is done very neatly and isn't at all "unsightly" IMHO. My "Le Capitaine" has butt joints, but I love it anyway.

John in Austin

Claude is here to criticize. You should not expect anything else. He once was telling me cajun playing style (playing the left hand, playing octaves) was to cover up poor playing ability.

If he hates the music, and hates the instruments, what the hell is he doing here?

Cajun music would not be Cajun music without octaves and "double note" playing. If you want nothing but single notes, then go play Irish. I have to admit Irish accordionists do play faster, but it doesn't mean they are more skilled.

Cry baby, you forgot these:

.

C.

Do I have to separate you two? Don't make me come back there!



-David

Just having some fun with the old !

NAME:CLAUDE

No problems.

Have your fun while it lasts.

Claude.

Dwight,

I just don't know where your head is at!, I mean stating that I hate Cajun boxes.

You know it's totally erroneous and a total lie.

So at the risk of repeating myself, here we go again:

I like all cajun boxes with mittered corners , yes

Why, well , because it denotes on the part of the builder a souci with detailing and giving the buyer a little extra, aside from obviously showing a deep knowledge of fine woodworking techniques and an interest to be true to the hitoric aspect of this particular instrument: the Cajun accordion.

So there are a good dozens Cajun boxes wich I love, Dwight.

Distorting the truth, is kind of a childish thing to do, like desperatly digging for some negative information, and this when I have made my position abundantly clear in the past.

I just hate people spending their money, on a product wich I think is inferior and would steer them towards about half a dozen better builders.

I don't hate Cajun accordions, per say, and you know it.

But, I do know that I tend, and with the best of intentions, to go overboard, and I will in the future, slow down my comments, not stop all together, mind you, but give everybody a break.

Claude

Hey John,

Trust me, the frames corner joint is called a "Rabbet Flush Joint".

I didn't invent it, it's centuries old .

That you don't mind butt joints and love your box
is fine by me

As an aside,"ALL" locking and non locking joints, needs to be reinforced on the inside, as in the case of a frame construction, with the help of a glued triangular wedge shaped length of wood.

If you open up your "Le Capitaine" you'll see the wood wedges glued in place.

But there are lots of builders and wannabe ones on this page and i'm sure they would agree with me that the RFJoint is un unfortunate choice of joinery for the exterior construction of a musical instrument.
For the back of a shelves unit, sure!, not for a musical instrument!

And a rather pricey one, at that!

C.

Ooww I hate waskilly wabbit joints.

Claude is right... the accordions with mitered corners do look better on the shelf.



Luv ya Claude!

R!CK

It is always good to know more about how boxes are made, especially the ones you own.
Thanks Claude

John

Its the sound and the feel.

Many an ugly fiddle has produced great sound.

And ugly fiddler!

At least the box hides those ugly bellys

I smoked a couple of joints once, back in the 60's, and got them right down to the butts. Didn't inhale, though. Never sniffed glue, though.
JB

"Its not a drug, its a leaf!"

The fall leaves are the best

It is interesting to note that of the three best known ( some will argue this point) Cajun Accordions being made today are butt jointed..
I would also conclud from observation and from reading that those 3 have the majority of the market.
And (opinion alert) as much as folks would call them "hand made" I will call them production boxes.
Butt'er up.

Mitres are not necessary for tone.. but it is certainly a mark of excellence in the world of wood working.

Butt joints.. I don't use them in places where I could get away with it...
For those who do not know, I have been making furniture professionaly for 17 years...And if a 2 year back log is any indication of the appeal for quality work with no ifs ands or butts....

Even hohners are mitred and the celluloid covered ones are box (finger) jointed..

Gabinellis ( other than Elio Gabinelli) are production pop outs ( old surf board making term for mass produced to the lowest acceptable standard and marketed as if they are hand crafted )
Compare a BAb Tex Mex box with a Dino or a Beltrami
a world apart

And the Gabinelli one row is not a "Cajun" box

why not ?
1. Not made by a Cajun
2. Not configured internally like a Cajun Box
3. Usually not "just" tuned.

Poor Claude suffers from an illness called "do it right or don't do it"
And that extends to all facets of his life...
I'll bet few if any of you have a clue as to who this guy is....
Cut him some slack.. he is right ... butt joints are an excuse.. and don't belong in anything as elegant as a Cajun Accordeon


And I agree that butted or mitred is not on your mind when you are playing ( well maybe not yours) but it is on my mind when I buy a box...

If the butt joint builders cut corners ( no pun intended) there where else are they cutting corners...

I from a wopod working standpoint.. mitres are relatively simple but it takes a little more time to fit them
whereas with butt joints slap em together and belt sand them to hide your sloppiness.....and that is the main reason why it is done...

This message posted to create a diversion from the barrage of attacks to Claude Luneau..

You are welcome mon ami : )

#7

Actually Claude suffers from an affliction called "passive-aggressiveness", with a liberal dosing of "poor me".

He can give, but he can't seem to take it in return.

Miters are ancilliary.

We all have our opinions
Some of us try to base them on actual experience.

Ancilliary. Please... stop.. I am laughing so hard I can hardly stand it... !!

Someone has been subscribing to "verbal advantage"


This overpriced name brand production accordeon is constructed with (limited skill required quick and dirty ) butt joints ..

And this modestly priced limited production unit has time consuming hand fitted "ancilliary" mitres.

So does that make butt joints auxillary ?? : )

**** this is funny.

I will take it upon myself to have Claude commited.

Jeff, I'll try to type slower, unless you're purposely misunderstanding what I wrote.

The argument and stance about miters is ancillary.

It is beside the point.

Is that better?

Thanks for finally getting the spelling right..
Ancillary not ancilli"a"ry
Verbal Advantage works best for the already semi literate..

The definition is:

added but not essential

So therefore your argument is that the discussion and not the mitres themselves are "anciliary" (Dwights original spelling)

I totally agree.. your discussion/ ergo you are not essential to the discussion about mitres


Mitres themselves, I would agree, are not essential to the accordeon

But I disagree they are "added"

It is a choice based on quick and dirty proeduction or a little extra time and a bot of skill to execute
which results in

IMNSHO an essential detail of design

And here is where we differ

though the mitre may not be essential to the construction..
In my opinion and in the opinion of
Gaillard, Castagnari, Serafina, George Roux, Kincora, Cairdin, Maugein, Beltrami, Melodie, Messervier, Clement,Briggs, Hohner,and dozens of other builders including Cajun accordeon makers...
Mitres are an essential element of design

Even violin makers mitre the purfling...imagine butt jointed purflings.

It is a matter of choice to take time to "add" that simple detail

and a certain type of individual to appreciate the effort

Does it change the playability and tone of the instrument.. no.

But it does change the character and tells me a bit about the character of the maker...

Any clod can make a but joint,but it takes a Claude to
make and appreciate a mitre.


Thank you

Ann Cilliary

One of my usual typos in line two

should read "ancill"i"ary not
ancilli"a"ry

minor point but relevant..

And I should have said subordinate to the point, not beside the point. But who's counting.

I would recommend a refund on Verbal Advantage

Dwight,

May I remind you, that this not your board to control, so stop playing the bully's game, it's not going to work with me, I garantee you.

You have your own ( 3, 4 5,) to police, so why have you've taken the responsability of doing so on this one, it's not really your responsability, is it?.

If it is,that you've taken over Joanny's duties , that is without me knowing, then I'll abide by wich ever decision(s) you take.

But the question that I have is that since you're savy enough with computers to eradicate my name from your files, why don't you do it.

That is, if you don't like my posts don't read them, simple is it not?.

Instead you have choosen to dress me down with my poor command of English, and other faults that i apparently have.

So my posts are offensive to you? delete them instead of having to resort to such antiquated and juvenile put down tactics .

Don't be the Police cop,on this board, it should'nt be your role, and I'm almost positive it is not.

Like I said, don't read my posts.

E-mail me personnally,with your beefs, but, please do not use this board to validate your points.

Unless you're hell bent on harrassing me, that is!, and if that's the case, I certainly wont let you.

Many on this board have corresponded with me over the years, and I 've had some really good frenships develop from it.

So, they know that I'm not the villain that you've painted me as.

Cluade,

Remember what your mommy said ..

it is not fair to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.. : )

I seem to recall conversations about the differences in quality of design, materials and workmanship dating back a couple years..

I also recall my observations were not appreciated...
about the Quebec boxes including the Melodie and the many fine Italian one rows including Castagnari.

My how things change... to a point of posting references to the construction of the Melodie.

I have owned handmade Quebec boxes, handmade Italian boxes and handmade Cajun boxes and Hohners.. all with mitred joints ..that is my choice because I appreciate the extra effort and the resulting strength of the union plus the appearance

If there are those who continue to make butt joints and those makers have their following.. that's ok
I find it no different than the Tex Mex players who insist on buying Gabanellis.. ( US Gabanellis)
You won't change anyone's opinion in spite of facts.
Facts have never been a part of folklore.

But my opinion about ownership of any accordeon is like my opinion about motorcycles..
As long as you own 2 wheels.. cool with me..
(not withstanding the mythology and abusive pricing of Harleys)

Are you boys dating?

In deference to peace on Joanie's list, I'm going to dial it back. I think I've gotten my point across.

But, in closing, tell us what you think about the Cajun playing style, Claude. You know, playing octaves, playing the bass side.

Be honest.

Dudes,

This non-issue is ancient history. Can we just let it die? No one cares.

He started it. He was looking at me funny.

You mean Dwight's homophobia ? : )

Mitre might not agree with you..


It's in the details.

I have long wondered how Gab got away with calling thier one row box "Cajun" King when very little if anything about it is Cajun...

Kinda of like Cajun Blackened Snails know what I mean ?