I missed the close of the ex. Eddie Lejeune accordion in UK. Did anyone notice what it made? Did it go to anyone we know?

BJ

Went for about $1027.00.

J

Thanks John. About five hundred quid. Hmm. I guess that's about right. I've seen Martins and Acadians for double that over here. Whaddya think, Glenn?

BJ

GBP 530, which is very expensive, as our braves from Lake Charles are right (and why should they be wrong?)

A month ago there where 2 acadians for sale in your country for 800 GBP each. ( I think I know who bought them ) That was a better bargain.
Maybe the accordions of our forum member Helin from Finland are also a good bargain for a reasonable price. (How much was it?) At least they sound good. I would like to have the opportunity to play one once. Does anyone have experience with his accordions?

Gus

Gus

whoever purchased it bought it for the historical value,and probably proximity to UK or other EC country.

A signed Eddie L. box for someone with a serious Cajun itch.. at that price.. was a steal given the Euro / Dollar / Pound ratio.

The recent Martin and Acadian sales on eBay reflect the buying public's respect and desire for quality instruments,which exceeds ( or is conditioned ) by the lack of available lower priced handmade LA boxes.

I am not surprised prices are this high.. I assumed they were artificially low for some time.

$1,800 to $ 2,200 is the price range I have followed recently for good used instruments.

G

The Music Room in England has an Excelsior 'Acadia' for £500, a Gallotta at £350, and a Castagnari Max at £1099!. All used.

Do you still think a handmade Louisiana box with history and signature is expensive at £500?

What is dear in Louisiana is not neccessarily so in Europe after shipping, duties, scarcity etc.

BJ

The Finnish boxes may be very good. The ones made in England by Mal Manning certainly are. The French ones by Eric Martin are good too.

But when it comes right down to it, if you're into Cajun music, you really won't be happy unless you have a box made by a Cajun. Well, OK, that's a personal opinion, but I know it's shared by many, as you'll probably find when you want to sell a non-cajun made Cajun box.

BJ

John, didn't you read the thread about the inferiour boxeslast week? Seems there are also "not so good boxes" made in LA. And a "not so good box" even signed by the late mr. X, is a pain in the ass for a serious player. (Alas, we cannot ask mr. X for his opinion, so, we had to ask the Lake Charles guys instead)
Of course I can only judge a box by playing it myself.
It is a pity that good non LA boxes don't bring up as much money as Cliff Moth's or others. At the other hand, it gives people the opportunity to buy a good box (if not a Salt...... ) for a reasonable price.
About the Castagnari, I owned one myself and they are really very good boxes (ask Wilson Savoy, who played Ron D´s last summer), but I prefer my Cajun-type accordions for Cajun.

Gus, who might get into trouble after this post

Here Gus, here, let me help you with that lid...[SHHPOP!] ... there. Now this can of worms can be enjoyed by all...

What strikes me rather odd about many contributors on the board is the theory that an accordion's value is only worth what someone can sell it for. Are there some accordion flippers amongst us?

An accordion's net worth is directly proportionate to the level of skill applied to it. Having one's joybox won't make learning [that tune] in one's head any easier.

I know, this is a Cajun accordion forum and we're here to discuss Cajun accordions -- to pick them apart, put them back together, and compare notes. That's all good... but don't forget to practice playing on them.

[Skip to the next track]

Anyone figure out Andre Thierry's single-row runs on "Whole Lotta Something Going On" or Corey Ledet's "In The Club" runs? Are those some whack pentatonic scales or what?! Is there an easier way to achieve those blazing triplets other than rocking the octaves? Those guys are total genius. Likewise -- Lil' Nathan's tune, "Squeezebox" sports the same "Ardoinesque" riffocity. How do those guys make it seem so easy-greasy? I know they're rolling the octaves, but what wizardry they possess.

Do I really have to spend days learning how to play this stuff or will a Brazilian box with Czech reeds make this effortless?

"Throw some D's on dat" - Polow Da Don

R!CK

Good points, Gus. I know Ron loves his Max's, and he's ten times the player I'll ever be.

BJ

Keep in mind that the prices quoted for The Music Room in England include approximately 20% Tax. all prices quoted must include tax.. so take that into consideration... subtract 20% before you do the dollar conversion...apples to apples

The "Max"
The name Max was given to the 1 row Castagnari melodeon by a British dealer/distributor. Castagnari does not use "max" and continues to call the model the "Melodeon"

No, I'm totally serious...

Do I really have to spend days learning how to figure out Andre Thierry's single-row runs on "Whole Lotta Something Going On" or Corey Ledet's "In The Club" runs? Will ditching my LA handmades for a CastroMax make this easier for me?

Gonna hafta write a tune, "Apples To Apples" (Ducks To Ducks),

R!CK

I wish to politely disagree on a few points.. the box the player and the music are not the same thing.

IMHO A good box is objectively well-built and sonorous regardless of the player, music played. It's judged on materials, tuning, and how well it reflects the "canon" of qualities which are overall admired, respected, and desired by specific accordion community.

Players in IMHO are objectively good or bad on whatever box they play. The accordions value is not linked to the player's ability.

The music may be a question of taste.. as ultimately are a player's personal taste in boxes.. and as is the judgement of a player's ability.

As for there being bad name brand LA boxes.. I can name a few( having owned a few ) , but would not generalize .. I consider them one-off bad-batch.

Castagnari makes a decent Cajun box.. but audibly different than the LA boxes IMHO. I heard Ron's and we spoke mostly of LA boxes being the standard.

Just some gratuitous,unsoliticted air.

G.

Right on. Good points. Respect.

Help me understand. Why own a good box if it sits on the shelf? Am I missing something here? Are we talking about the aspect of collecting or seriously integrating European accordions into Cajun music?

On the other hand, you have different fingers...

R!CK

A good player can make an average box sound good

A bad player cannot make a good box sound good

I second that. I've heard my old Hohner 114, rebirthed as a Couillon, sound real good in Jude Moreau and Cory McCauley's hands. And I make it sound, well, like I was playing a Hohner.

That's true, Jeff - 17.5% to be precise.

BJ

Thanks, just want to keep a level playing field

BTW do any of you Brits know Neil McRitchie

Formerly of Hobgoblin Crawley and I think spent a brief amount of time at the Music Room ?

Very good D/G player

I know the Hobgoblin firm Jeff, but only on line. Don't know any personnel.

John Turner is the main squeezebox man for Music Room.
He's based at Cleckheaton, Yorkshire.

BJ

Some first-person ramblings:


good players can make bad boxes sound good ?

all bad players make good boxes sound bad ?

Playing and Sounding .. to me are different.

Playing is execution, Sound is the voice quality of the instrument.

Of course there are lots of other qualities that go into evaluating a box ( positively and negatively ). Jeff H. has nicely summed up many in his posts.

I think the perception of good playing, good sounding, bad playing, bad sounding is tied up in questions of personal and shared tastes.

I can't tell the difference between Binci and Salpa, but I think Tommy Q. can. I've recently done some professionally monitored experiments in reed quality perception. My ( our ) final conclusion is that the ear has little memory and can be deceived. You like what you want to hear,regardless of reed quality.

I think Falcons are extremely nice accordions, but I think they are overpriced. ( $2,300 )

I think Jude's boxes are under-rated, and an excellent balance of quality for the money ( as I think Baffetti triple row accordions are ).

I believe that used Cajun box prices are heavily influenced by forums such as these.Once an eBay box is posted here, up go the bidding prices, bidding out of spite, envy, desire, or just peeing on the territorial corner.. prices on eBay for Cajun boxes have doubled in 2-3 years. (The average price in 2004ish was $850..and as low as $500 )

I am a collector (and player .. not necessarily inthat order ) who has bought ( and played )and sometimes resold at minimal profit, break-even, or loss some very nice boxes and which are in the hands of some very ( more ) capable players ( raise your mouses all of you for whom I "delivered"your accordion : ) )..

LA/TEX would make a great name for a Cajun Box with note bending capabilities..

If you are implying that you are quoting me.. kindly at least make it accurate

the word "all" was not used
And you used "bad" instead of average.

I suppose by hair splitting definitions you are attempting to discredit my comment

I agree with you about playing and sounding..
but in the context of what we were talking about and in the context of what I posted...I'll stick by it

As much as I respect Quinn... I don't think he could pick out the Bincis.. and I am sure he would agree that it would be tough...He has had some experience and play time.. but even guys =who have owned 50 plus accordeons and played many others would find it difficult.

I have a fiend who is a capable accordeon builder/tuner.. he belives there are too many variables involved.

I agree with your observations on Moreau's boxes. Falcon gets what he gets.. desrved or not.

And Yes I also agree that Baffetti three rows are infinitley better than many boxes particularly the Gab's that are made for the US market.. ( not the Elio's made units)

And Baffetti makes boxes that are rebadged for Saltarelle.

I also flip boxes. not because I am making a living doing it but because I find them at good prices, or rare units, or in the wrong hands.. I recently bought a mint Hohner Pre Corona 3 row in mint condition. Found it in a piano store in Reno Nevada... Turned it to a Tex Mex player in Illinois, Small profit and a bargain for the buyer.

E bay has skewed prices of most things way out of whack. It is a feeding frenzy. I always laugh when I read " I W O N " such and such on e bay. And that is what E bay intended tomdo.. turn spending into a game.. a conquest.. I am the successful huunter. A land of sheep. No you B O U G H T something off e bay. And it is that mentality that is driving the prices up.

A couple years ago you could get a Hohner 1 row for around $100-$400 now thanks to e bay $400 up.
Thankls all you suckers. You blew it for the people that really want to buy then to play them.

I collect sort of... And I will distinguish this form Hoarding. I donl;t buy just to buy and glower, I buy to enjoy then flip em to someone else to enjoy.

At one time I had 12 boxes.. I am down to 3 ( at the moment) but that may change. I have owned well over 50 accordeons....and 4 concertinas. And I have dissected everyone and photographed most, repaired quite a few. As a result I have some experience.. mostly on what not to buy and what is what copmpared to another. Have you ever pulled apart a Shine Mouton box...then you would know that often he used Hohner parts.. r pulled apart an older Savoy and compared it to a newer one to see the evolution of the tuning and the reed blocks and so on
Or Italian boxes.. and see these subtle differences

Or a Gabanelli and these cheap reeds they call "hand mades" smoke and mirrors folks....how the Norteno guys swear by these I will never understand...

Sorry off track...

I don't think it hurts any of us to know more....
and I welcome other opinions and observations... might just learn something new such as your beloved French brand is actually made by a medium quality Italian builder...
and then there is the Brillington myth, but that too, is another story.


LA/TEX very funny !

Castagnaris are $2300 and no, I don;t think they are overpriced.. it is the dollar/Euro that made it so.

However I do believe that many accordeon builders/suppliers in Italy and the US hid behind the Euro/Dollar escalation and slipped in their own sneaky little price increase in the haze of the currency smoke....

And some builders simply raised the price after some posters pointed out that Quebec boxes were more money.. a kind of "if they can get it we can get it" mentality. I would agree if the quality was there.. but point of fact.. (generally speaking but from experience) it isn't. I am not the first to point that out, so save your darts.

Does anyopne disagree that Levis were a quality product at a modest price years ago.. now they are flimsy inconsistently made at outrageous prices... why ?

An dhow can MArtin guitars get away with slidin gin micarta and eliminated back center strips and using decals instead of sound hole purfling.. and the prices continue to go up

Or .. better stop


Better accordeons.. reasonable prices.
Either it's done in the US or it will be done elsewhere

Anyone aware that some Italian manufacturers and Spanish guitar makers are going to India as well as China to set up plants. India will be the next China
Get ready.

I was not quoting anybody Jeff.. so there was no intentional reference to anything you said, other than agreeing with some observations.

G.

Interesting to hear what Jeff said (in general, but particularly) about ebay. I'm not an ebayer but attended many auctions in the past, and 'won' always seemed an odd term to me.
On the subject of 'collectors', I don't know about other countries, but people like me ( in the past), who buy unusual cars and trucks, run them a while, and pass them on, are known as collectors in UK. Probably same with accordions. No hoarding involved, just pleasure and experience, and comparing notes ( Ha - notes!) with like minded folks.

BJ

John<

I was in the car biz for many years

and starting way back till present I have owen 108 Cars and trucks and over 50 bikes

I started my life working at a BMC dealership
Among the cars I ahve owned are the following Brit units

1946 MGTC Cross flow head nitrited crank, lightened flywheel, balance and blueprinted lightened and peened rods and so on
1950 MGTD ( factory salt flats racer)
1953 MGTD Mk II with TC seats
1954 MGTF ( xpag not an xpeg)
1956 MGA with a 3 main 1800cc MGB engine
1969 MGCGT Mineral Blue
1959 Fairthorpe Electron Major with an FWA Climax
1960 TVR Grantura with a Climax FWB
5 Thames Freighters
1953 Morris Oxford 1500cc flathead
1960 Morris Oxford
1960 Commer van Camper
6 Morris Minors including and early 50's Convertible
1980 Rover 3500 V8
1958 Land Rover Series 1
1961 LAnd ROver 88 Series 11
1967 LAnd Rover 108 NADA 6 cylinder o'drive
1974 Land Rover Series 111

and so on

Hoarding is an acquistion disorder that usually involves some degree of "keeping them away from others"

doesn't sound to me like you are in the category

I am curreently down to 4 vehicles
must go to e bay must W I N !! at all costs

Need an Invicta or a Bristol or a Dellow

You would be a wealthy man today if you had those cars now. Some were the kind you give your left n - t for.

That list did not include a
1953 Porsche 1500 Normal
SAAB 3 cylinder sedan with a Monte Carlo Engine driven on the street but set up for BAJA
11 Volvos
Fiats
Renaults
11 VW's including
55,56,57,58.1960 experimental 40 hp,53 Bus right hand drive, crank out windshiled, Klik gagues, 16"wheels
double doors more than 23 windows due to no airbox..
Came from So Africa
Volpini racer
a mess of US made pre war trucks
Several International trucks
2 Jeeps, 51 truck and 1980 Scrambler
53 and 56 Studebaker trucks.. 60's Lark Wagon
39 Ford coupe, 56 Ford, 51 merc 4 dr
53 Packard 300
56 Chevy
More trucks
Several Toyotas including 81 4X4 truck
74 Mazda Rotary truck, 72 Mazda RX2
and so on and so on..

The list does not include over 100 dealer and factory demos I drove ...I did not own them, just part of the pay package...

And then there were the bikes..............

Yeah, that's interesting (El Jefe's take) on the whole eBay concept. I don't think eBay started off knowing it would be so popular. In the beginning, it had good intentions by some common folks and they never dreamt it would become an empire. It's morphed into a twisted swamp full of falling trees, mean dogs, and carefully placed traps. Look what happened to MTV -- somebody stopped payment on the reality check there.

Oh well, change is inevitable... except from a vending machine.

R!CK

Thanks

it's cool

Then there are the services and programs you can buy to ensure you are the

W I N N E R

Ever consider that other folks also sign up for the same services and programs.

Wow, Jeff - you've had some exotica, there. Most of mine have been old clunkers. But old American clunkers, which, in UK, is what made them interesting. And old Land Rovers, which I used to compete with in off-road trials.
All that stopped when I got married in 1980,(except for Land Rovers, which I justified because we were part time farmers) but I made a living for 14 years with a 1982 White RHD Road Commander, which was 6 years old when I bought it.

Now money is not so tight I have a '49 Chevy truck ( useful toy ), a GRP Wyllis Jeep replica ( bought kind of by accident) and I'm about to start on my long promised ( to myself) '32 B highboy roadster.

I think it's my mid life crisis kicking in!

BJ

Hey John, next summer you should make a detour to visit a fascinating automobile museum. It's in Mulhouse (Alsace). I went last year and found it really exceptional. Take a look at the websites.

Christian

Thanks for the tip, Christian. I'll see if I can get approval from Management.

BJ

Isn't that where the two old ( if not dead) brothers were found to have the largest collection of Bugattis ?

Yes, the Schlumpf brothers. It's an incredible secret story. The above article gives all the details. The museum is now owned by the state.

Christian

What a fascinating story, Christian. Worthy of a film script.

BJ