I have a Bb Martin and looking to get another box. I wanted to get a Martin D. I was at Junior's place yesterday and saw a triple row on the table and tried it out. It was a GCF. Man, I always wanted one, and playing that one just made me want one a hundred times more.

Look at the YouTube clip of Corey Ledet playing Boudin Man. Can anyone tell me what key that is?

The one I played in GCF was cool,and definately want the G key.

I was just wondering what other keys would be cool to have for that Corey Ledet/Buckwheat/Clifton sound.

Oh yea, forgot to add it was a Dino Baffetti.

No wonder you were in love, a Dino no less. If it had been a Panther you would have had a different reaction.

Can't go wrong with GCF, though I had the chance to play an EAD once....nice box, 5 steps higher than a GCF, sweet sound.

Capt. E.

On his instructional DVD Corey plays a green Baffetti in F Bb Eb but you can adjust the DVD to make it GCF. On that Youtube vid I believe it is a Black triple with Stradella Basses on it (Standard Piano Accordion Basses) so from his hand position it looks to me like that is a GCF. If he is playing in the key of D it is a GCF. If in C (like on his CD) a FBE. If in B then it is EAD.

mr corey does have one oddly keyed baffetti
it;s bflat/eflat/aflat i think
or maybe c/f/bflat
i think that one is white or maybe light blue

as far as what key to get, i would say
g c f for you
because you don;t currently have a c box, right?
at least you would have something to play
in c or g

what i really really wish i had, key wise, is
C one row
A one row
F/Bflat/Eflat triple row

what i have is
C
Bflat
F/Bflat/Eflat
couple of C/G/Fs

the problem is

Bflat isn;t really very far from C, tonally

the F/Bb/Eb sort of duplicates the Bflat single row

and of course the G/C/Fs duplicate the C single row, sort of

[[i'm just thinking of the keys i am able to
play in, ignoring the different sound
and more notes possible in the 3 rows]]

so if i only could have 3, they would be
C
A
F/Bb/Eb
the most keys in the least accordions
the 2 triple rows are not too close to each other

wle.

I may be wrong , but I believe the most popular three rows are in order;

G/C/F
F/Bb/Eb
E/A/D

Then you could get a B/C or C/C# Irish box and play anything. There is a beautiful 3 voice B/C Cairdin on Ebay right now. Put up by a Brave, I believe.

No, that order is not right, at least in zydeco. I don't know about other genres of music. The order should be:

F/Bb/Eb
G/C/F
other keys (E/A/D, A/D/G, Bb/Eb/Ab)

I would hesite to quantify the percentages, but F/Bb/Eb is definately more commonly used. G/C/F is somewhat less common. All other key combinations are very rare.

-David

I was thinking Tejano order.

Yeah, Zydeco would be different

Capt. E

he does seem to be
a. playing the song in D
b. mostly using the outside/bottom row
c. not moving up to the inside/top row ever

that would make the bottom row G
and the accordion GCF


wle.

Thanks for the replys.

I want to keep from getting something that is too high, I don't want a tiny sounding key, I like the lower Clifton/Buckwheat sound. The G on that box I played sounded great.

I called my friend Donna Angelle and she has a GCF, she told me I couldn't go wrong with that arrangement.

But she is a woman, with a higher vocal range, so for her G/C/F is a better choice than F/Bb/Eb. For men, that is generally not the case, unless you are a tenor, or if only instrumentals will be played.

For most men, hitting a high F is a big challenge. Hitting a G is nearly impossible. Or, I should say, impossible to hit without it sounding all screachy and strained. I can hit a high A, but it will sound like crap for sure.

Just something to think about.

-David

Get whatever key you want.

Having said that, it is good to put things in perspective relative to what is commonly used.

The most common key combination if F-Bb-Eb.

The next most common is G-C-F. You will see these frequently, but not as much as F-Bb-Eb.

Occasionally, you will see E-A-D or A-D-G, but these are rare.

I have an F-Bb-Eb, which I use all the time. I have a nice G-C-F (courtesy of Glenn) which I mainly use at home. It is nice to have both.

A key question (no pun intended) is whether you plan to sing or not, and what your vocal range is.

The most important key on a triple row is that of the outermost row - F on an F-Bb-Eb, or G on a G-C-F. Triple row accordions are desinged to provide the greatest degree of flexibility and versatility on that key.

So, if you have a G-C-F, you will be singing in G a lot. If you have a tenor vocal range, that is fine, but most men are baritone/bass, and it will be difficult to hit that high G note in a way that sounds at all good.

That's why I prefer the F-Bb-Eb - it's MUCH easier to sing comfortably.

-David

David,

Do you have any youtube clips of both your triple rows? I'd like to hear the difference.

I have been working on Tit Monde from an instrumental version with a strong fiddle presence using my C box. Ive actually never hear another version until using the link in Tony's post tonight(cant tell how far north I live huh..)
Check the utube above, does that sound like a C Box ?
I have a hard time telling...most of the time...

Might be fun to find a few mosre and try to confirm keys being played, hope you dont mind.. I wont swamp ya with it though..

I think it is a C box.

For sure, the song is in the key of F, which is the 3rd position on a C accordion.

I usually play this song in Eb, using a Bb accordion.

This is pretty much the same as "Why You Wanna Make Me Cry".

-David

FBbEb .. as already mentioned is probably the most widely used..like Corey's green Baffetti.

EAD is a pretty sounding box for bluesy music.. I think Boozoo played an EAD triple row sometimes....

GCF is the most universal sounding and for learning from.. but depends on your singing range.

Roy Carrier's gold Gabbanelli .. the one he records on and is on YouTube on is in GCF if you need some soundbites.

In any case if doing Zydeco you are going to want to consider getting it internally mic'd I suppose.

I have a Black Baffetti 4 reed box with pro mic and hand made reeds up for sale privately ( it is factory new ). the engraving is just gold outline with aurora borealis white zarkovsky perlines.. killer ( oh, two registers on the bass and 9 on the treble.. ) I may be selling for economic reasons only.. if anyone is interested.

G.

. . . my Baffetti is in FBbEb.

I have a Hohner Corona IIIR in EAD, GCF and ADG which when mic'd are great zydeco boxes.. ( ask Dave S. or Johnny Ace .. )..

I've just had the ADG tuned professionally and will be selling ( it is in that very rare silver gold metallic celluloid.. Hohner made very few like that ).

Glenn

It will most likely be out of my price range, but that ADG box would sure make a nice birthday present for myself...

Any reviews on the Corona IIIN extreme?

Queen Ida does a good job with a 2 reed/note Corona II. There is hope with my Panther! Not too bad with blues other than the trad. Zydeco.

I went to Hohner for 2 days to try the prototype .. as I'd worked with them on specs for Norteno and Vallenato models IIIV and IIIN ..

They are very nice.. expensive.. solid.. HOHNER sounding and in every way a German accordion.. smooth action, good volume.. nice tuning.. easy to shift registers which don't impair button action or sound ( like on the IIIR ).. they got the bugs out and have a winner.

You can try one at the Conjunto Festival in San Antonio next week..

GLENN

"The most important key on a triple row is that of the outermost row - F on an F-Bb-Eb, or G on a G-C-F. Triple row accordions are desinged to provide the greatest degree of flexibility and versatility on that key.

So, if you have a G-C-F, you will be singing in G a lot. If you have a tenor vocal range, that is fine, but most men are baritone/bass, and it will be difficult to hit that high G note in a way that sounds at all good.

That's why I prefer the F-Bb-Eb - it's MUCH easier to sing comfortably."

This has not been my experience at all. In our jam, where everyone uses a C single-row, the men all do fine singing the songs in G, but C is too high for us. My experience has been the same in bluegrass - men usually are most comfortable singing in G or A, women in C or D. I took some voice lessons once, and was told that I am a "bass/baritone", and G and A are definitely the most comfortable keys for me to sing in, for bluegrass anyway.

The F-Bb-Eb box is just one whole tone down from the G-C-F - would that really make that much of a difference for a man singing?

I had a two row F/Bb Paolo Soprani that I should never have sold. Loved the sound of it. Fit my voice nicely.

Are you able to sing a high G note with no trouble? If so, you a very lucky.

Or do you drop down an octave instead?

-David

What's a "high G" in relation to middle C?

High is relative, isn't it.

When I say high G, I mean the G above middle C. And a high A is the A above middle C. I call it a high G, because it is at the very top of my vocal range (actually, it is somewhat beyond the top of my vocal range). My voice teacher is training me to get up there, but not with the goal of being able to hit that note in performance. My goal is to be able to hit F in good form, and I have largely achieved that, but only after a great deal of effort and unlearning bad singing habits. But he takes me up to G, because it gives some head room, even if you never use it. Apparently, it is better to have a little extra room up there. Sometimes, I even get to Ab, but that is difficult.

I think that I am typical of most non-tenor singers in this respect. I sing in a couple of different choirs, and I am in the first bass (or baritone) section. Many of my fellow singers are much more accomplished than I am. Some of the baritones, especially the soloists, are able to hit notes much higher than the rest of us, but that is unusual. Many of the basses and baritones start feeling that it is uncomfortably high once we get past the D or E above middle C.

-David

still
it all depends on the melody
i can sing lots of songs in D

just because the key is D doesn;t mean
there are
necessarily a lot of high notes

each song has a range
a highest and lowest note

that range should be in *your* range

it can be in D but the melody may not
call for any high A notes

it depends on where you start, and where
that puts the range of the song

wle

Yep..I agree with Larry..G, C, D, A, Bb, F, E and all the sharps and flats where appropriate should not be a problem for most guys....it's ALL about the song structure.( Presuming that you are going to be a 3 row player AND lead vocalist ).

I have songs I can easily handle in, say, G , but there are others in G where it requires a higher reach for a phrase or chords and it can be the thing which stops me from going ahead with developing that song into our playlist.
Either that, or you ' fudge ' it a little by backing off the mic for that tough reach note!!!

Listen to Keith Frank's MANY songs and CDs and see how much versatility there is in song structures..I believe he plays a Baffetti GCF 3 row.

Also don't forget that for performance..a whole night stuck in one key or two can be very dull !!

For me, find the key that you naturally fall into then make a decision around that...and if you can't vocally handle a particular key at a gig then hand the vocals over for that song to another band member who can!..or CAN the song completely.

Darryl.

Hmmm. It seems to me that Keith Frank uses a F-Bb-Eb triple in every song that I can think of. For single row accordions, he uses LOTS of different keys.

What song do you know of where he used a G-C-F?

-David

Yes.;..you're right David...I was confusing GCF with the 3 row Mr Roy Carrier plays..now THAT's 'growly' Zydeco....BTW..anyone heard how Mr Carrier is..seems he had a health scare a year or two ago and I haven't heard anything since.?

BTW..I went to a Mardi Gras gig a couple of years ago in Eunice and I could have sworn Keith was using a 3 row GCF...I'll recheck my camcorder video tapes..but I'm sure you'll be correct David..F Bb Eb.
I have a Bb single row made by Jude Moreau..man, it gets some attention from the folks when we use it ...it's makes a gutsy change from a set or two in G or C .

Yes, of course that is true.

And it seems like there are a very large number of songs in cajun and zydeco that start out on a high note, or come to it eventually.

It is less common for this to happen in say, country music, which has a more relaxed singing style at a lower part of the vocal range.

Thanks for the replies.

I talked with Karlos at Karlito's Way Accordions in Dallas. Nice fella and took the time to talk to me about the different options.

Looks like I'm gonna go with the F/Bb/Eb. My voice is on the low end so i think this will do well for me. Just trying to decide on colors.

Karlos is da man...

BTW.. how many of us have Cajun boxes or Triple row boxes in A ..??

Seems Boozoo did lots of that.

I LOVE the A box..and my EAD triple row..

G.

I have a Cajun box in A, which I like a lot. I don't have an E/A/D triple row, but sometimes I wish that I did have one. It would have made things easier vocalwise back in the days before I was trained to hit a high F.

It is quite surprising to me how much difference a half step can be, from a vocal standpoint. It wouldn't seem like there would be much difference between E and F, but it can be like a brick wall if it is at the top of your range.

Boozoo did use an E/A/D triple on at least one CD, fairly late in his career and the A single row too. Maybe there was another CD using them as well - I am not sure.

-David

boozoo

he did use a lot of A and E/A/D on his last studio records

'hey do right' which may now be out of print and

'who stole my monkey?' - the original title and words to which were 'they stole my money'

his early records used some C and C/G/F accordions

then most of them in the 'middle period'
were with Bflat

wle.