I've had good success internally micing single rows, but on a three row, what about under the grill? I realize that won't pick up the bass side, but other than that, are there any other disadvantages?

Steve

It seems like if you do it under the grill, it could pick up a lot of clatter from the flappers opening and closing. But that's just a guess.

There not much room under the grill. I suppose you could fit those tiny little condensor mics?

I mic my triple rows the same as the way I do the single rows: inside, mounted on a reed block. It works pretty well.

-David

one mic on the reed block?

aren;t there balance problems?

some notes [close to the mic] way louder than others?

i have to have 3 or 4 mics [elements] to even get close to a balance

wle.

The balance isn't really all that bad. It's not a perfect setup, but it's acceptable.

It would be a different matter entirely on a full size piano accordion, at least I think it would be. The linear spread of the reeds is so much farther, it seems that there would be more of an impact. I can't say I've tested that theory, however.

-David

My thought is a couple condensors under the grill - wouldn't use a condensor in the box. My theory is, less sound pressure, a little farther from the reeds (less balance issues), and cleaner sounding than a dynamic. Guess I'm looking for flaws in the teorry before I waste time and energy. Got a couple Sure 45 elements lying around, so should I just cut my losses and install those? This 3 row thing is all new to me.

Steve

Steve,

Another thought .. If you haven't already tried it,
mounting a mic inside the bellows/box does created
a different sound than external micing does.

(You can heard the chamber resonance with an internally
mounted mic.)

I just spoke with Mark Savoy last weekend and he tells
me that his current preference is to simply use a
mic on a stand. It is probably one of the most
natural sounding methods.

Of course, that system, like every system, has its
disadvantages as well.

--Big

one thing you run into in a 3 row-
there isn;t any @#@#$$ing space in there

you end up having to put the elements
right on the reed blocks just because
if you don;t, they will be squashed between the bass and treble reed blocks when you close the accordion

a one row has more space

you can get some distance between the
reed blocks [treble] and the
mic element [usually one miv will do in a one row]

wle.

Steve,

I think I use about 4 mics in my piano accordion.
(I have used similar setups for 3-rows, all though,
I think I have active condensers in my 3-row now.)

I have them mounted under the grill.

I had tried the condensers mics in the past but was
not very pleased with them for Piano Accordion.

Condensers require battery power, or phantom power in
order to operate.

Of course, this is all personal preference.

I think I have a photo of how I mounted them at:

http://www.bignick.net/BoxLessons/boxlesson_20.htm

The photo only shows one ceramic mic. The ceramic
mics are held in place by Velcro and the wire leads
are simply paralleled.

Ceramic mics were the old standby, but one needs some
EQ to make them sound good .. they are sonic cheapies

Hope that is of some help to y'all?

--Big Nick

I setup a triple row with condensors under the grill.
It took 5 to get even balance and still needed some EQ to sound right.

To avoid feedback, I had to line the inside of the grill with gaffers tape.

Then run a little wire to the bass box with just one mic and a "fader" volume knob.

The whole thing runs on one AAA battery that lasts for several nights playing.

But it was a lot of work to setup.

DP

Oh yeah, the condensor mic under the grill feedback problem! Not fun. That's why I went with the internal dynamic mic - the feedback was terrible with the condensors.

Technically, mine were on the grill, rather than under the grill. It is one of those Microvox systems. They have a weak signal too. Anyone want to buy it?

-David

I've often wondered what the Big Gun players do with their 3 rows.

Roy Carrier has that big beefy sound with a real growl to the bass side, Chubby Carrier also, Keith Frank has a lighter sound.
Corey Ledet is a real nice guy...he has Balfa camp experience and MAY be more willing to advise....especially to ex campers he may know.

Is it worth asking them or whoever fitted them.
In the end it may come down to the way these guys EQ everything.
Ya know.." ya don't ask ya don't get ".


It's just that it'd be a pity to go through the whole process to come up withh an unbalanaced, lame output which may have squeals and shrieks occasionally.

I'm interested because Steve in our band ( ex Balfa 2005 ) is a PA player and is always looking for ways to mic it adequately...and he's also expressed an interest in buying a 9 switch 3 row Dino Baffetti or similar for Zydeco.

Darryl.

If you want that zydeco growl from the triple row, and ESPECIALLY if you want the bass side, skip the condensors entirely and go for one or more internal dynamics mics.

I only have one mic inside mine - it is the capsule from a Shure SM-57. I don't think the sound is particularly unbalanced. If I did something with multiple mics, it might improve, but probably not that much. I do intend to try it someday, but for now, the single mic is fine.

-David

Took the grill off, and realized that I probably couldn't even fit a lavaler in there. Since I never seem to throw anything away, I've got a couple Shure 45 and Shure 65 elements, both of which I like, but debating which to use. Seems the only logical place for the jack is on the bottom. Thanks for all the input.

Steve

If it's zydeco, inside is the only way to go.
My Dino Baffetti 3 row has a single EV 468 capsule inside. Larry Miller put it in for me - he's who I ordered the accordion from too.

The sound is nice and rich, as I prefer it.
Pick up inconsistency is a factor, but it is not a problem for me.
And yes, jack on the bottom is where you want it.