So you live in a place outside southern LA that doesn't really value Cajun music, mostly because they don't really know about it. So are you stuck with never getting to see it live unless you spend a boatload of $$$ to travel there? Will your friends never get a chance to see and appreciate what you see in it? Not necessarily . . .

Here's what we've done: I find 9, or 13, or 27, or however many other people to go in with me on a band. Let's say for the sake of argument that the band charges $1000 for a night (which is dirt cheap, IMO, considering their travel time and expense). If we have 10 people putting up the money, that's a $100 risk apiece. Then we approach a local bar owner. We'll supply the band and the crowd, if he'll supply the venue. Most bar owners will jump at the chance; after all, there is no risk for them, and no expenditure beyond their normal operating expenses.

So now, if we charge $10/head, we need to get 100 people in the door to get our guarantee back. But we already have 10% of that number, our 10 backers, invested in the show being a success, so there's at least 10 of us getting on Facebook, making up fliers, calling local newspapers, radio, and TV, and talking up to our friends. We should be able to get 100 people easy, right?

But let's say we only get, say 75. We're $250 short of the guarantee, so we've lost that, right? Well, yes and no. We had 10 people taking the risk, remember? So even if the show doesn't "make" the guarantee, in this particular case, we've spent $25 apiece to get Jesse, Chris, Ryan, Kristi, or whomever to come to US, and to benefit OUR entire local community with their music! In my mind, that's a VERY small price to pay.

Now imagine that, through the magic of the Internet (e-mail, Facebook, THIS forum!), we can help the same thing happen in other communties. I live in Fayetteville, AR. If I can get others in Jackson, MS., Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Tulsa, Dallas, Houston, and so on to also do this, we can establish our very own Crawfish Circuit, a circuit that LA. players can look to and depend on for regular jobs. Imagine getting your favorite Cajun band stopping by to play once/month in YOUR hometown!

And lord knows they could use it. Competition is tough and pay is low for most bands in the Lafayette area. Wouldn't it be great if we could support (and enjoy) our favorite musicians, the ones who bless us so much with their music?

So I think we've got the ball rolling in Fayetteville. Anyone else want to join in?

Sounds great!

Texarkana (my home) is about 1/2 way between Fayetteville and Lafayette, also 1/2 way from Memphis, and only 140 miles from Little Rock. This could be a logistical keystone to make the trip worthwhile if we could make the dates fit.

Jamey, we need to talk. 903-277-8028.

Nedro

Love the entrepreneurial spirit! Now you're thinking like a capitalist!

Now can I expect you to change your party affiliation and put up a Ron Paul sign in your front yard?

You sure about that Jon? Sounds like I'm being a community organizer . . .!

Will call you, probably tomorrow, Nedro!

Arkansas is half way to Indy, right? At least in Musician Miles? Let's organize a tour...

There ye go, Chuck! Isn't Chicago close to you, too? And St. Louis?

Dear Jamey, alias Arkansas Red,

The Cajun French Music Association here in San Antonio is essentially doing what you have suggested, but in a slightly different way.

We have a large air-conditioned smoke-free dance hall, with bar, restrooms, dance-floor,
band-stand, etc. that we have booked for every 2nd Saturday of each month for $ 315.00 a pop. The hall belongs to the Sons of Hermann Fraternal Insurance Association. They get the proceeds from the bar, but we get the gate at $ 8.00 a head, which is usually enough to almost pay for the hall and the band. We need about 120 dancers to break even, if we use Texas-based bands, which average about $ 675.00 per gig. The Texas based bands include Cory McCauley and Evangeline Aces, Charles Thibodeaux and Austin Cajun Aces, Steve Bing and the Bayou Hotshots, Bubba Brown & the Super Cajuns, Jerry Bellot and the Cajun Friends ,and Cher La -Bas , my start-up group.
We also sell food like jambalaya or gumbo at $ 3.00 a portion, which also helps add a small amount to the bottom line.

We used to use a lot of LA-based bands, which normally charge an average of $ 1,350.00 to play, plus motel room, making the total gig costs about
$ 1,550.00 per night. This takes an average of about 195 attendees to break even. That may not sound like a whole bunch of people, but it ain’t real easy to achieve, even if you advertize on radio, advertize in newspapers, word-of-mouth, face-book, twitter, e-mail, snail-mail, threaten, cajole, beg, or offer incentives. Honestly, we could have the the Lost Bayou Ramblers opening for the Mamou Playboys, spend a Grand or more on getting the word out in various media, and the same 120 people would show up, guaranteeing that we would lose our rear-ends that night.

Not trying to rain on your parade or knock your idea, but if you could get a home-grown band or two to perform at a good venue on a regular basis for a real reasonable rate , you will be at least educating the good people of Fayetteville Arkansas on the attributes of Cajun music. Your investors will be happy, the venue owner will be happy, and the bands, including your own, will be extremely happy.

Your friend and Pain-in-the-Buttocks Old Faaart,

JB

Hey JB, You're not raining on my parade, buddy. And I'm gonna try to bring a little sunshine to yours.

A couple places we differ: We don't rent the hall. Seems to me most bar owners would LOVE getting 120 people in the door without having to spend a dime, especially for the early part of the evening when they're usually slow anyway, and most will be willing to have that designated time,say 6-9 or 7-10 be non-smoking (I don't know about your demographic, but that is a must for ours). So there's a $315 savings off the top, if that's workable in your area.

We charge $10, or whatever they can afford; like a man once told me, "I'd rather make a quick nickle than a slow dime." The large majority will always pay the $10 anyway, but I will never turn anyone away for lack of money; never have, never will. $2 more ain't much, but with the numbers you quoted me, that's 240 more bucks for the cause (or the band or whatever).

As for the LA bands, a couple of ways to save $$ there: Don't put them up at a hotel room; feed 'em and house'em at your place, or parcel them out between some of your willing CFMA people. It's fun to hang out and break bread with them anyway, and there's bound to be someone with the room who'd like to have them.

Also, and this is where my idea of networking cities comes in, find them gigs on their way, to help them, and negotiate them down. Now don't get me wrong: I want bands to make as much money as possible; Lord knows they don't make enough. But that's where the quick nickel and slow dime idea come into play. If I'm a band, I'd rather play two gigs for $2000 than one gig for $1300, especially if they're feeding, housing, and loving on me in both places (hmmmm, the last part of that sentence sounds a little disquieting, but you know what I mean). If you can also book them in Houston/Austin/Dallas/Waco/whereever as well, you can probably make a package deal.

I've more to say, but this post is long enough, and I need to work on the Midland 2-step. Preview of coming attractions,though: expand your fan base with free dance lessons . . .

Jamey,

We're trying the same approach here in Cincinnati, with our first dance scheduled for early December with the Morris Ardoin Trio. This is our first time out of the gate and there are only two of us fronting the cash, so we're a little nervous. We're hoping to attract other supporters at the gig so that we can continue to do this with a bit less financial risk and are looking forward to being able to host other bands. I think one of the keys to starting this sort of thing is finding bands that are on tour and offering them a little side gig, which reduces the travel costs. Now if I could just get a handle on this sound system stuff.

POB

GO Patrick! Right on, buddy, you're on the right track. But you need help. Here's my cliff notes version of advice: Free dance lessons to expand your base. From that base, draw backers so that everyone's risk is relatively low. Guerrilla market like crazy; be a pest to all your soon-to-be ex-friends (just kidding; you're doing the Lord's work here), and get them to help; many hands make light work, and it invests everyone in the idea. USE THE INTERNET! Befriend a nerdy teenager, or coerce a family member.

And network outside your area. So far we got me, you, and JB . . .

Since I now usually limit my drinking to 'at home', it's been a while since I've done the bar scene. However, let me offer some ideas based on my many years of never ever learning anything from my many mistakes.

Yes, bar owners would like more people in their bar,usually, but picking the 'right' place is critical. If there is chicken wire in front of the band stand, probably not a good choice. If they don't even have a band stand, probably not a good choice.

I don't know what age crowd that you intend to cater too, but the older crowd, especially the kind that wants to dance to Country & Western or 50's/60's belly rubbin' music and, therefore, Cajun, tends to be a bit leary of a bar whose main clientele tends to have more tatoos than teeth. Not saying that some of those folks are not good people, but they tend to frighten little old ladies, and sometimes, their little old men, as well.
Renting a place you can trust, that's safe,clean, has security personnel (required in Texas), and senior friendly is well worth the $$$.

Fayetteville may be very different from San Antonio, but I kind of doubt it, especially when it comes to recognizing and appreciating Cajun music. It's pretty slim pickin's, here in the land of Con Junto, Tex-Mex, Country, and Rock.

Sam's Burger Joint, a well known SA rock venue, has hosted both the Mamou Playboys and The Lost Bayou Ramblers, both going back to LA after the end of a tour. Both concerts were well advertised in all facets of media. Guess who showed up? Yep, the CFMA regulars and a few curiosity seekers. Offers to put them up in private homes may have been extended, but logistally, that could be a real nightmare for the band. If I were on tour, I would not want to stay with any generous soul who had the possibility of owning multiple house-cats.

Jamey, I applaud you efforts, and good luck too you.
The idea has merit. However, I still think that you and your band could get the ball rolling more-so than you may think, and you could put some of that dough in your own pocket.

JB

Jamey, I think it's a great idea and wpuld love to see some good bands here here in Paducah. But, here is what we tried this past Jan. We tried to do this at the Carson Center here in Paducah and we even took it one step further by having a cajun dinner before the venue We advertised in local papers and charged 25.00 per person for admission including the meal and we also offered an option for those who didn't want dinner. The price was 15.00 per person and we had some good cajun musiciane come in from La. We were lucky to draw about 100 or so people. The center lost money on the venue and by the way we have an awful lot of river people here who work on boats and love cajun food and music.
I never thought it would be such a bust. It wasn't the music but just the price tag to get in.
I have several good friends with bars here who also bring in bands from Nasville because we are only about an hour away and they all have a very difficult time getting people to pay over two or three bucks to get in. In fact they always end up losing money on the cost of the admission to cover the band. I also have a lot of close friends all over St Louis, since I am from there, and they have the same problem. Unless they bring in a well known rock group to draw the younger crowd they have a hard time making enough to pay the bands and they usually lose money on the admissions.
I really don't know what it is but it's hard to get people to pay over a few bucks to get in.
Chuck from Kentucky

Good thinking Jamey.

LOL glad I live in Lafayette where we can see good Cajun bands every night of the week for F R E E. We dont have to put up with no teeth or tatts. Just good old fashion music that we all like, the dance floor is even big enough to dance on without bumping into other hoods

Dance lessons. Check. Though the hilarious part is that Amanda and I will be teaching. Guerilla marketing. Check. We have a very cool poster and are plotting on ways to get the word out as widely as possible, including that inter-webnet thingie.

We're hoping to entice some other folks to throw in with us for the next time. It's all good.

1. dancers don;t drink!

2. bar owners - they may actually have a risk -
a. they could let some other band use the place [ a band whose fans drink ]
b. they may not want to move tables or they may not have space for 120 dancers
[that is a huge bar]

if they move tables they have to turn away diners...

any SUCCESSFUL bar or restaurant isn;t going to want to give up space for 120 dancers and a loud band

so you may end up in small or unsuccessful venues

you will find that getting 100+ people to come to see live music is pretty hard even in a big city

the first time they might do it

here [atlanta] january is the best month

summer is the slowest
followed by xmas month



wle

Good point, Larry: dancers don't drink. It's really true, at least for the folks who really get into dancing. I'm still not sure what to do about that one: toss the bar owner a couple hundred? That would be pure profit for him. Have "healthy" drinks, sodas, non-alcoholic drinks on hand?

What do y'all do in Atlanta?

what do we do..

well it is the number one problem with 'we could play at the local bar'

either you play for not much money

or you find places where it doesn;t matter

like pappadeaux restaurant
place clears about $1,000,000 a week
seats 400
we played there a long time as 'extra entertainment'
for $500 and food and beer
not a bad deal
couple nights a week
BUT
they have no space inside
we were outside
under some roof but still


what else do we do
just play private parties

or
you can book it anyway
let the venue figure it out

if they gripe, eventually - just charge less to play and maybe explain it to the dancers that you will have a $5 voluntary dancing fee, honor system


you would think the healthy drink thing would work
but the dancers are also cheap
it;s not just that they don;t drink
besides the bar owner then has to have 'special' stuff just for you

it;s led to us getting fired from several places, not that they call it that but eventually someone looks at the bar tabs and figures it out then they book someone more alcoholic

what else do we do

about half our stuff is private parties

and we play for public dances for folks who put them on
atlanta has a group, atl cajun zydeco dance association
bham has one, ACME
huntsville AL, CZC

tallahassee, asheville, used to

right now we have exactly one gig booked
march 2012
though we will play 3-4 days before mardi gras at pappadeaux probably


if you get on the 'white blues' circuit, get ready to be paid $100 AND griped at if beer sales aren;t much

lot of competition there

i dunno

just saying
dancers don;t drink

wle

Screw cover charges never never never pay to get into a bar. If you have to pay a cover charge then the **** drinks should be free or at least half price.

Then how are the musicians supposed to be paid? Or, do you believe they should just play for free? Would you play for free if you were a professional and performed regularly?

Let the bar pay for the band. They make plenty on the drinks they charge for. In Lafayette La there are plenty of places to dance every nite of the week different bands each night and we dont have to pay to get in. Let the establishment pay the band charges.

awesome idea!! add some politics to it and you have the CFMA!!

Got to hand it to you, Jamey.

This has been the best thread on this increasingly mundane forum for quite some time.

I would say that Christian is right... Anytime you bring 9 or 15 or 27 people together to try and accomplish something worthwhile, especially if there is $$$ involved, about 50% of those people are gonna quickly develop differing ideas from the other 50% about how things should be done, so you quickly have 13 1/2 people wanting to book the Mamou Playboys and 13 1/2 people wanting to book the Feres Michot and then arguing about what is Traditional Cajun and what is not Traditional Cajun and does a steel guitar really belong in a Cajun band and then YOU'RE the guy they're gonna blame because it was your idea in the first place to start this band deal and now the beer is too expensive and the band only played Jolie Blon once and never did play the Bayou Noir 2-step even after my wife requested it twice and how-come we don't have a crawfish boil every month and how come it cost $ 10.00 to get in now instead of $ 8.00 like it used to and why don't these bands play a little Rolling Stones every now and then.

And I wonder What Am I Doing being an Officer Again in another Friggin' 501 C 3 Music Oriented organization. Stupidity!
I know, personal problem.
Has to be love, I guess

Oh Yeah, almost forgot about the taxes aspect.....

JB

That's funny JB.About how it went with my attempt.Good idea Jamey,it will work in some places,you proved that

Funny (and sad!) JB. OMG, I can just imagine the "too many Indian chiefs and every one an expert" scenario. Luckily for me, there are at least some advantages to being the only true-blue Cajun FREAK in my area, and one of them is everyone deferring to me about all things Cajun. They know I've been the persistent (and pesky) voice in the wilderness for a long, long time. But I can easily imagine your predicament.

You know what to do with loudmouths: put'em to work. Then they can put up or shut up! They might do the former; not likely the latter. God bless you, I can only imagine what you're faced with.

More later . . .

Agreed, Christian!

I'm a bit too far off to join in, but compliments for your ideas and your positive thinking, Jamey.
That tune project was also a great idea. It made me practice more seriously and appreciate tunes I didn't like at first.

HEY !!!

Now I understand why I almost quit playing CA for such a long time!!
Time for a new tune!
C'mon Jamey!! Put me to work again!

Hmmmm, that's a good idea, Peer. But let's it make a little more challenging this time . . .

This is especially for you hot dogs out there: Jim, Bryan, Patrick, Chris, Ganey, Jim, Rusty, Big Nick, Jon Melancon (you are definitely on the list now, buddy!) and so on. I'm going to name a tune that you may have heard, but probably don't play, or at least haven't played much:

The Poullard Special by Mr. Ed Poullard.

The only officially recorded version I'm aware of is on Les Amis Creole. It will be VERY interesting to see who rises to the occasion on this one, and what they do with the tune! BTW, if you don't have it, let me know and I will e-mail you the mp3.

Let the games begin!