It's difficult for me to understand exactly what
kind of stage presence that your friend is referring
to. The topic is broad!

Stage presence crosses the invisible distinction
between musician and entertainer. And we all know
that the "music business" really is the "entertainment
business"

Entertainment may be artistic excellence for someone,
or a barrage on one-lines for another, or both.

A lot of your stage presence may depend on what kind
of image you may want to project.

This whole observation reminds me of what we used to do
way back in the era of our high-school bands.

We'd make a point of attending a show of a revered
band and taking a note pad with in order to jot down
notes about how they engaged the crowd.

I'd hazard to say that much of stage presence is
professional/appropriate conduct on stage (what ever
that may be)and engaging your audience.

Of course, what works for one audience, city and
state may be completely inappropriate for another.

Remember the Beatles on Ed Sullivan? (Probably not?)
Matching hair cuts, clothing, bowing to the audience
John on one side of the stage and Paul and George
balancing the stage by sharing a microphone ..

All stage presence.

But if it ain't right for you, faking it is a bad idea.

Audiences can pick up on fakes quite easily

But, it's a good exercise to study Ann Savoy, or
Micheal Doucet. How are they different? What works
for them? What image are they projecting?
Additional examples of images: Madonna, Bruce Springsteen. Both masters of image and stage presence.

Then, what image does your band want to project?
How can you consistently pull in your audience to
feel your band's personality as well as music?
What do you want the audience to remember about you
when they tell their friends how good you were!

So .. there you have it .. no answer at all! (Very Zen, no?)

--BN

JB,

If they all left at 9:30, I'd worry about stage presence. Since they danced 'til quittin' time, I'd say your presentation worked for the crowd.

Greasepaint and sequins work for some, bare feet and blue jeans work for others.

stage presence is a plus

but playing for dancers is different than playing for sit-and-listeners

dancers really are not paying as close attention as listeners

lots of the cajun and zydeco bands don;t really have stage presence

who does/did..
terrence simien
wayne toups
beau jocque
keith frank, when he wants to
rosie ledet, but she is cute



who doesn;t
boozoo chavis
steve riley, none of them really
beausoleil, they try but not really
jambalaya cajun band, they try but not really

lots of them are *nice guys* but that isn;t the same thing

just my 2c

wle

All true! I agree with all of you , especially BN told some very wise words.
It's really a matter of taste. If you don't have to live off your music, it's up to you to decide how to present yourself on stage.
On one side of the spectrum you'll find Mark Savoy, and on the other Doug Kershaw.
I'd advise you to go for somewhere in between!!!

From his website, here's Marc Savoy's perspective on "stage presence":

"Do you like to play for an audience?"

"It all depends on the quality of the audience. I am neither a crowd pleaser or a performer, and I surely wouldn't want to play for an audience that finds a Garth Brooks type of presentation as something entertaining. What such an audience would call a performance I would refer to as a mindless exhibition and the things they find so amusing, I would refer to as "cutesy-cutesy", "shlock", or "gimmickry". I find that this type audience "sees" music and very rarely ever hears anything. I would much rather play for the blind."

JB,
An audience member making a comment about stage presence, to me, is like asking for more cowbell. Don't get me wrong, engaging the audience is a good thing, but I find that most musicians who engage in over the top stage antics are trying to divert attention away from their lack of musical ability, or they think that people won't find their music interesting enough to hold their attention. It cheapens the experience.

I hear the question all the time about what happened to REAL Country music. I believe the group Alabama started the downward slide, then Garth Brooks and Reba McIntyre finalized it. Honky tonk Country music went from being about heart break and dispair with two-stepping and waltzing to partying, drinking and carrying on like there is no tomorrow, and then eventually to a form of music that can barely be distinguished from Pop music. When Brooks and McIntyre hit the scene, they fit well in the Country music genre. When their shows became about lights, acrobatics and costume changes, the context of the lyric was lost.

I feel the same thing will happen to Cajun music. It has already been largely replaced by the driving rhythms of Zydeco music. Wayne Toups definitely has a strong stage presence. I think he has done a lot of good in bringing the young crowd to Cajun music. It is the ones who have come after him and tried to mimic him that have ruined it. They simply do not have the foundational knowledge to keep it within the boundaries.

There! My rant for the day.

Very well said. If you were running for office I'd vote for you.

No circus acts for me either. A few words and a smile now and then is enough presence for me. Music first! And when I watch a band, what I enjoy watching is the technical skill and the complicity between the musicians. Or the contrasts in their behaviors: this one is a little extrovert, but that one on the side is doing a great job discreetly, etc.

I'm glad to hear you say that, Ganey; I DESPISED Alabama (the phenomenon, not the guys personally) when they came out, and was alarmed at their effect on CW. I ranted about it back in the 80's, but nobody listened.

I agree with everything else you said, too. CW went from being the people's music to just another corporate product.

Beware to overact on the stage. I agree with Christian, music first. Some funny talking between the song is good, but not always easy. I have a live-cd from the Dillards and they tell very funny stories about the area the come from and the music is also great. I love to look at the Lost Bayou Ramblers with the difference between Andre and the rest of the band and the PLB also are very dynamic on the stage. I saw Ray Abshire twice and the stage-presence of his band is so cool and the music is the best. Peer also hit the nail on the head with the difference between playing for dancers or listeners. I hate the stage-thing in the tv-programs as ".....got talent", "the voice of ...."

Thanks Ron ... but ...
did I say that? ...

No Peer, it was somebody else. Larry wrote that.Sorry.

I'd say that it could be argued that Marc does
have a stage presence.

When Marc performs, his image is one of confidence,
authority, no nonsense, authenticity, scholarly
and so forth.

Different than marching out on the stage wearing clown
shoes, hooting "Somebody scream!"

But he is entertaining none the less. Like watching
Nova or listening to Chopin.

--Big Nick

You should of asked that guy why he was watching the band instead of dancing. The kind of stage presence I like is when the band is having fun playing together, and really liking it. When I play a gig I like to look at the other band members when we're playing and smile, play some different rhythms or a flat 3rd to see if they'll follow me, or just to encourage them to loosen up and have fun.

Theres no need to jump around and get all heavy metal, you're playing DANCE MUSIC. The audience should be the ones doing all the jumping about.

Christian I disagree with you, as a professional Cajun dancer I do look at the band while dancing. If they are stone faced and looking like they would rather be somewhere else it is not as much fun dancing. They dont have to jump around and act like circus clowns but they should at least look like they are having as much fun playing as the dancers are dancing. Just my thoughts. The best bands are the ones with beer cans around them feeling happy.

Wasn't going to get into this thread, but...Totally Agree, Randy ! It's that visible connection that is essential...that message that says, hey, we're having a great time up here, hope you guys who made the effort to get up out of your seats and sweat it out on the dance floor feel the same way.

I mean, if all it is is musical perfection..why have a band at all..just play a 'greatest hits' CD and put store dummies on stage with instruments draped around their necks.

Too many bands, of all genres, look introverted, full of concentration , expressionless, and as if they only want to play for themselves and find audiences and dancers a distraction. Most of them just look like they just want to a a backing band in the shadows of back stage and let someone else do the touchy feely thing. Perhaps they're shy ?

I know there's this traditionalist presentation thing of Cajun music but ,unless the box player has a bad back, I think it's pretty poor form to remain sitting when you want folks to get up and dance.
In more intimate venues then it's not so important.

With all due respect to Marc, he's a brilliantly talented 'technician'..but IMHO lacks that final touch of presence..
He almost seems to be distant from the proceedings..like he's doing gigs only because he wants to get back to the workshop and make and sell more boxes and things,..
When I've seen him play, many times in fact, one can only be impressed with his playing, BUT, he may as well be a cardboard cut out of himself playing to a recorded disc of himself ....oh, and with the cardboard cut out stuck to a chair.
I'm not sure how he presented himself on stage when he was younger .
Thank goodness for Wilson S. when he plays in the family line-up..at least someone in the band can be seen moving up there...it's a very starchy line up otherwise, and doesn't do much for me.
BUT..each to his own I guess.

Randy, if you would have read the rest of my post you would see we're on the same page

Thanks to all you guys.

Very astute and helpful observations and comments from those who know.
Picked up some good suggestions, some of which can be put into immediate use, others that will require a good bit of reflection and meditation.

Interesting, the fellow who originally commented to me on the Stage Presence thing is also a ’Professional Cajun Dancer’, or at least he and his wife have taught Cajun Dancing. I value his opinion because he has heard a ton of Cajun Music from many, many live bands. Even if he has never attempted any instrument except a ‘tit fer (played out of time, usually), he still knows what it should sound and look like.

Just as an aside, our whole band, with the exception of the drummer, plays standing up, and many, many people comment on that being a big positive.
We have one band member who works at Lowe’s all day standing up on concrete, and we provide him with a bar-stool for later in the evening.

JB

If I'd have known that the name Mark Savoy would stir up so much, maybe I would have chosen somebody else.
To me, it's not a matter of good or bad, but just a matter of style. To be honest, I never saw Savoy in action live, and neither Kershaw. I just thought they were good examples of extremes in approach to stage presence. Which I still think they are, for what I know.
Don't take all this too serious!! This is why I put in the ! And have fun, on- and offstage.

Sometimes "stage presence" can be no more than doing a few simple things, not jumping around on stage. It's possible your dancer is thinking in this way.

Here are some examples that I often see overlooked by some beginning bands.

1. Announcing the band at the beginning and end of each set.
2. Showing configence.
3. Acknowledging the audience
4. Dressing like you are a band (not just friends jamming in the garage) Dressing well shows respect for your audience.
5. Have fun. When you have fun, the audience has fun.

Things NOT to do on stage.
1. Huddle together like sheep while playing. (if the stage is big, use it!)

2. Have a Huddle on stage between each song. ("Darn it, it Cajun music, not football" :)

3. Diddle around on your instrument before, between and after songs. (especially problematic for guitar players :)

4. Say any disrespectful things on the mic. (even as a joke)

5. frown, scowel, stare or yell at band members if they make a mistake. (the audience probably missed it and now you just drew attention to it.)

I hope this helps!

DP

Dana,

Great list. The little things can make a big difference.

My experience has been that -sometimes- (certainly not always)
if someone clams, or train-wrecks, it can be quite
humorous. I have seen where it actually works to the
band's advantage with the audience because they can
sense the spontaneity and camaraderie.

(Of course, this is a dicey proposition and I would
recommend injecting deliberate clams.)

--bn

I may be getting picky here, but DP's list spawned a
few more ideas in my head.
Again, these may not be appropriate for everybody.

Getting on stage after break: Personally, I'd say that
it's good to enter the stage together rather than
a few members drift up, and then have to hunt for
the remainders, or call them over the PA, from their
perch at the bar

(Drinking, on a gig? *gasp*)

And, when tuning, it's good to use an electronic
tuner or some other means so that the audience
doesn't have to listen to obnoxiously loud lead
guitar tune-ups etc. (No one would really do that,
right?)

In one band I was in (many, many moons ago) we had
agreements such as: The stage must be cleared for
15 minutes prior to the performance. Tune ups should be
completed by then. And, we'd actually have a "roadie"
usher us up, unseen prior to the performance, to
the stage.

I know, that's shtick-ee, but back then, it worked
for us

--bn

EXCELLENT advice from Dana and Big Nick..all performing musos take note.
Had to laugh about the lost band members after a break....been there, done that. We make a point of mingling and connnecting with the crowd at breaks..but sometimes it turns into a ' Where's Wally ' exercise when we try to resume.

IMHO, the thing to always remember is that you are firstly a performer.....who co-incidentally, plays music...otherwise stay home and become a legend in your own lounge room. Eye contact is essential..not only to the audience but the band as well.

And if it's a bit difficult for anyone who's not quite so committed or extrovert..try Groucho Marx's philosophy.." If you can fake sincerity, you got it made ! "

I wasn't going to chime in here, since I've never played a gig, and probably never will, and I'm not a dancer unless I'm too drunk to remember.

But it did get me to thinking, of the people I enjoyed WATCHING, as well as listening to, some may have been pretty active and standing, and some were very subtle and sitting.

Like anything else, I think personal preference comes in to play here. I don't care for rock and roll antics on stage, unless it's Rick Reid (and may a very few others). But the reason I like watching Rick's antics is because it comes natural for him, and he's able to parlay his fun to the crowd. Not everyone could do this.

I think if you are "trying" to have a certain stage presence it won't work. If you can let your natural emotions come out, and they match the band's, it will work. I really think Christian nailed it earlier.

One of my favorite recent performances was by Cory McCauley, Mitch Reed, and Randy Vidrine at Festival Acadiens. All 3 were seated, and no antics. But they were obviously enjoying what they were doing, and were interacting naturally with each other. While they were playing I don't think they cared an audience was listening, and I think most who were there would agree that their subtle stage presence was powerful. If they had tried to do Rick Reid antics they would have just looked silly.

Wayne Toups is known for his roll and roll antics, but I've also seen him sit and play with heartfelt emotion, it works either way for him, but I would bet that if he was in a mood to sit and play traditional melodies, and someone asked him to get up and jump around and play Johnny Peut Pas Danser, it probably wouldn't work if his mood at that moment was to sit and play Bayou Teche.

A few performers with a strong stage presence include:

Daniel Lanois
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GH4FF5o7VM&feature=related

Timothy B Schmidt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF91ul0ZR64&feature=related

Mark Knofler and Chet Atkins:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wTVLIZaxMk

There are many more...

I guess I view things differently than most on here. Mabey it is because of where I lived all of my life. But when I go to see a cajun band, I want to be entertained by the music. Not the band. I really dont care if they are dancing around onstage. I love seeing Ray Abshire play. It hardly looks like his bellows are moving, but his music is unbelievable. I personnally would rather hear my music played around a fire in the backyard or on a porch than in a club or festival. Dont get me wrong. I like seeing Steve Riley or Wayne Toups play a festival, but given a choice, I would prefer a jam session in Dowell LeFleur's backyard.

Should be happening soon, right?

My friend. Is that "Stage Presence" comment still haunting you to the bones? Is it making you second guess yourself and wonder if being on stage is really what you want to do? Is it making you wonder if you were "good enough"?

It is a difficulty that may never be solved.
Just have the band master the songs and their instruments and play the gigs with confidence, maybe a few dozen beers to help pass a good time. And the next time somebody approaches you with a comment like that. At least break one of their kneecaps or smash your beer can into their forehead. Turn the table on them and have them hobble away thinking about it instead of you.

Bon Chanse,