I keep hearing that the chord changes in Cajun are tricky for someone not used to playing it. I don't play any other music, so I'm not a good source of knowledge on differentiating it from something like zydeco.

A friend of mine said it's things like the fifth coming in early and stuff like that. Not sure how to listen for this.

Anyone have any input on this? One song I'm working on a score for right now is La Danse de la Misere. I seem to have the chord progression, but not sure if the chords change on something slightly off the beat boundary or what.

Any input?

there isn;t any general principle involved
songs are individual - some have 'tricks'
some don;t
it;s just like any music really

they just have to be learned

another thing is, the bass has to agree most of the time with the guitar

you may decide to change it from the way some 'original band' played it

the accordion melody doesn;t necessarily lock the chords into some unalterable pattern

a lot of times it is arbitrary

by changing it, you will change the way the song sounds - with the same accordion part

steve riley did this with lovers waltz
not sure why, but it sounds better his way than the original band's version

and of course if you play the bass side, it will clash with guitar and bass a lot of the time anyway

it is true that a lot of times the chords will change in odd places, but that is usually because the melody does demand it, if you DIDN:T change exactly there it would be a real dissonance

but that isn;t necessarily unique to cajun

it;s one way to make it interesting, given the limits of the genre

[accordion plays limited keys and chords, and it can;t be chromatic or bend notes]

another weird thing is, extra and missing beats
A and B parts that arent; the same length
or the vocal part may be the A part just longer
or only on certain verses

usually it is 2 inserted or deleted
odd numbers would be hard to dance to



wle

" Danse de la Misere."

yep it does that

doesn;t change on an even 4 or 8 boundary

there isn;t much choice but to do it
at least bois sec;s version

it;s just how the song goes

if the band doesn;t like it, tough


wle

This area is new to me. My band mate (not the guitarist) is saying, if the guitarist is playing rhythm, aren't they going to be coming in squarely on the beat with the chord change?

I don't know the answer to this. Any help?

i would say 'yes on the beat, but the chord-changing beat will not always be beat 1, the downbeat'

just tell that person not to worry about it since he is not the guitar player

i mean why does he care unless he is the bass player?

wle

If you are using a bass player.
The answer is NO.
The bass always leads the chords.
Because he hits the downbeat before the guitar which is doing mainly offbeats.

If you are using a guitar only, that is a different story.
as he will be doing both.

Side note about Cajun music guitar players.
As a bass player, the most annoying thing is having a guitar player, playing all over your notes.

Some guitar players that are used to playing as Cajun trios, forget to leave off the bass notes when a bass player is added. They end up doing walk-ups, when you might be doing walk-downs. It can be a mess.

DP

I have to agree with Larry.
It's up to the band to decide how they plan to play each song.

I listened to your sound bites for the up and coming gig and you use different chords on some songs than I am used to hearing. Different than the way I usually play it, and different than Mark plays it, and different from the "original".

This is NOT wrong. It sounds fine, it's just a matter of the whole band understanding, learning and knowing your interpretation.

where is the sound bite?
wle

Dana, check your email.

Is there a link to the bound byte? I can offer my 2 cents
if you're interested

--bn

www.lesamiszydeco.com/listen.html is what Dana is talking about.

I agree that it is much more difficult for someone who did not grow up listening to ethnic/cultural music to follow along with the unusual chord changes. I think the most common mistake is to assume that the rhythm is a 4/4 count. The tendency, these days is to play songs with a 4/4 rhythm because is rocks things up a bit. There is nothing wrong with that, but be **** sure everyone is familiar with the song and its chord changes. In my opinion, most of the melodies in Cajun music, two-steps of course, were originally played with a 2/4 feel. It is true that in many cases, the chord change will come in at the right place either way, but sometimes you will find a song that doesn't. For example, if you walk a bass in 4/4 time on J'etais au bal, you will have to cut a measure in half in the b part.

I would suggest that they play it in 2/4 until everyone is familiar enough to test out the 4/4 feel. On the particular song that was mentioned in this thread, I would definitely stick with 2/4.

Ditto on what Ganey said! Also if you look at it in terms of 4/4 you'll end up with two extra beats on the 2nd line of the A part on ALOT of 2 steps. I've heard some songs change on the upbeat. I don't think Cajun music is any more crooked than old time, bluegrass, blues, jazz, or any other types of American music, or most music in general. It requires a certain "groove", and in order to get in the pocket of that groove you got to listen to a ton of it and play it regularly for some time. Good Luck Dwight!

I have no idea whether I get the changes right when I play fiddle. Cajun and some zydeco is all I play. I didn't "exactly" grow up with it because it was not really played in the home, but I would hear it out in the environment. Houma was not a cajun music cultural hot spot. At least not that this rocker knew about.

the lead [fiddle, accordion] doesn;t really do 'changes'

that is bass and guitar

or anyone doing chords or bass

[keyboard could do that too]

wle

I have no idea whether I get the changes right when I play fiddle. Cajun and some zydeco is all I play. I didn't "exactly" grow up with it because it was not really played in the home, but I would hear it out in the environment. Houma was not a cajun music cultural hot spot. At least not that this rocker knew about.

on suzy q, it;s like bass and guitar didn;t listen to boozoo
did they?

it has 2 chords on the boozoo - G and E minor

your guys are doing G and C

it;s not a question of when to change
they get that right
they just have 50 % of the chords wrong!

wle

they are also doing something weird on the A part of wedding day waltz

geno wrote that song
it isn;t traditional

they go
GGDC GGDC GGDC instead of
GGDG GGDG GGDG

did they not want to follow his band;s version?

they may be following you though, you hit a big G note
they may be thinking it;s part of a C chord
but it isn;t

maybe have them listen to the record

unless that is on purpose


wle

I think the problem is that they aren't listening to the music, just playing in the moment. And I can't pay attention to exactly what chord they're playing and play my part at the same time, unless they're right in my ear and it can come through all the distraction.

yeah
they need to rehearse and learn stuff the way it goes :)
i mean at least they agree, bass and guitar
and it does more or less fit with the lead

they are probably listening to the accordion bass side, which is frequently wrong


but it sounds ok

i just am used to the real way it goes
it jars me to hear it that other way

even though i said it;s ambiguous sometimes
i can still 'see the difference'
especially if no one else ever plays it that way

wle

If I have a fiddle in my hand, I go a long ways further in figuring out the chords.

I've been trying to rely on the low stress of the farmers market gigs to have the other musicians learn the chords.

Also, I don't think there's a bass player in those recordings. Just accordion, rubboard and guitar. Guitar covering double duty.