"Grand Master Cajun Musician" Is there such a person? I've been thinking on this lately, and I need some help from all here. I guess I need to call out any and all Cajuns that might be coming to this discussion page. I also guess that these Cajuns need to know how to at least play the accordion, the fiddle, or both. It might be helpful if they are able to speak Cajun French, know Cajun history all the way back to France, and have a good handle on Cajun culture and heritage. Someone that can paint a big picture of our music history and the instruments involved and be able to pinpoint and explain certain details in that picture. They can be professional musicians, or they can be amateur. Professional meaning that they get paid to perform on their instrument and amateur meaning that they are great players, but choose not to put themselves in the lime light of the show and the stage and do it for free on the back porch. Are there any of these types that visit the bravenet? Does Marc Savoy or any member of the family come on here? Any other Cajun musicians of more or less that caliber that come here? Anyone on the bravenet, Cajun or not, could be of help as long as you have something helpful to contribute and willing to share. How bout any pro/amateur fiddle players?

I am typing this thread in hopes of bringing to light the number system being used by some Louisiana Cajun musicians. The "Number" system that lets everyone playing at a jam or on the bandstand know what key the song will be played in, which position to play the accordion or fiddle in, or which accordion or fiddle they need to grab according to it's tuning. The reason I'm looking for a Cajun Grand Master is because I'd like to get into the details of such a system and how it can best be taught to all levels of Cajun accordion or fiddle player so that it would help them get the best start they could possibly get and facilitate faster learning and superior comprehension. Or have I stumbled upon the "Keystone", the "Holy Grail", "That Which Should Never be Talked About"? Jamie Beard, Steve Riley, David Greely? You guys come on here? I bet yall know what I'm talking about.

Warning, this can end up being a very long thread if there are enough people that understand it and are willing to share and enough people willing to learn it. Patience, understanding, and thinking out of the box is what I hope to see. We also probably should go about this with as few "dramatic" comments as possible. No need to get upset or have a spitting contest. Just stick to accurate knowledge and facts put forth in as simple a way as possible so it stays interesting and easy to comprehend. Very valuable information lies in wait if we are worthy. Can we accomplish and move up and out of our caves my fellow Neanderthals? Can you master the accordion, fiddle, the music, the culture, the history in order to be on your way to Grand Master? And once you become a Grand Master, will you remain humble and never admit it? Will you be able to give what you know to others and expect nothing but a willing student capable of understanding what you have to give?

Oh, I almost forgot to give a very important bit of advice. If you reply to this thread, please use the reply button of the very last person posting. Do not reply to someone way up in the order. Reply to the last post and "name" the person you are replying to. This will keep the thread in a nice pyramid right sloping angle and keep the post as (latest post last) and looking orderly. I am sort of a stickler for neatness and paying close attention to instruction. We don't want to look like a bunch of crazy stray sheep all scattered about and bahhhing their own opinion out of turn now do we? Capiche?

If you are patient enough randy4u will be chiming in the morning that guy as the only grand master 35 degree accordion player in all of Louisiana. He is a walking encyclopedia on all things Cajun and not Cajun.

Har-dee-har-har...har...

Any other demands ?

Your idea is a great one. Are you by chance talking about the so-called "Nashville Number System?"

Well, I would imagine they could use this number system in Nashville. Ever thought about how much you have to know about playing the accordion to be able to hold up a finger or fingers to tell the band how to start the song? One would have to know how to play his or her accordion in all 3 positions and possibly have other accordions on standby that are in different keys and know how to do the same on them. At what point does an accordion player get this good and achieve such experience? Does he only get such experience by playing the accordion along with other musicians that play fiddle, guitar? Does he have to know how to play fiddle and guitar to be able to get it? Or does he have to be told or shown by the "Insiders" when they think he is ready? Because I can tell you that many older, traditional Cajun accordion players don't know much about calling what key the song is going to be played in unless they have learned it in college, or been told about it, or took years to figure it out on their own, some of them never. You'd think it would be square one of learning any kind of Cajun instrument. Ever saw that CD cover with Marc, Ann, and Mike Doucet where they were holding all of their instruments upside down or backwards? I think was Illuminati Insider symbolism for something similar to what I'm talking about.

Sorry 33rd, maybe I misunderstood. The Nashville Number System enables a band that has never played a song to play it with breaks, an intro and an outro. Maybe you might be meaning something else. :- )

I learned the nashville number system a long time ago and find it very useful.

But, like you say, it's about the chord progression and arrangement. Not sure it's applicable to playing the accordion.

I wish Jamie Bearb would comment on this. He is the exact person I heard mention this number system. He mentioned it in an interview on the radio with Megan Brown. Even explained it. *What ever key the accordion is...that is the number 1. Say it is a "C" accordion. Well that accordion could play songs using the numbers 1,5,4 which represent the keys of C,G,or F. Each musical key a,b,c,d,e,f,g is assigned a number, but they change according to the key the accordion was built in.* This is my interpretation of what he said anyways. He came on here not long ago to sell an accordion. The one and only post under the name Jamie Bearb. He is a very good Cajun musician. Plays fiddle, sings, plays some accordion and probably a few other instruments. I would love to hear his take about an accordion player being able to learn along side an established fiddle player and how that would help him or her learn accordion much more efficiently in less time. Such as in the case of Steve Riley and Dewey Balfa.

OK, that sounds like the nashville number system, and it is about the chord progression and arrangement.

On a C accordion, if you are playing on the push key, or in the first position, it is the key of C. If the chord progression goes from C to G to F, you would say it is 1-5-4.

But, if you were playing on the pull key, or second position, that is the key of G. Then G would be the "1". You could have a 1-5-4 chord progression in G, which is G-D-C.

The thing that makes the nashville number system useful is that the numbers are relative to the key you are playing in. You don't have to think G-C-D, you think 1-4-5. That makes it real easy if you need to change to say a D accordion. You move your fingers in the exact same way, and you can still think about that you have a 1-4-5 chord progression. You don't have to concern yourself too much with the fact that you are now in the key of A, and playing A-D-E instead of G-C-D.

That is one of the strength of the nashville number system is that it makes it real easy to transpose to another key to fit a different singer's vocal range, for example.

There are many good references on the web which explain the nashville number system in great detail. There are several Youtube videos too. And books. I bought a good one long time ago.

It's a very useful, and easy to understand system. And it is widely used.

What still amazes me is the lack thereof of hard hitters (Pro Cajun Musicians) that have yet to comment and enlighten us on exactly what the system is. I think the Cajun number system is more simple than the Nashville system, in that it only lets the band know what key the song starts in or will be played in. Since Cajun music only boast 2-3 chords per song, the rest is a given. "Figure it out by ear after we start the song dam you." I would have thought the Cajun Pro's would have been frequent visitors to the bravenet??? What's going on? Is there a conspiracy of silence amongst them or they just to busy? Now we're getting to the grit of it all. Where are the modern day artists that make a living off of Cajun music? Are they hoping we don't learn too too much at risk of there being thousands of awesome Cajun accordion players running amuck all over the world? LOL, funny if you think about it, and then it's sad at the same time. If everybody knows how to do the same thing equally good.....then what's your worth? That's right....it's not worth much. It would be like everybody on Earth having a million dollars. The million dollars wouldn't buy a loaf of bread. Food for thought. HAHA<<3

You mentioned Jamie Bearb before and some system he uses. You should ask him.

But, if using numbers 1,4,5 to represent the chords and also for setting the key, that's the Nashville number system.

It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. A long time ago, I would print out a set list for the band. I would add a note about the key, and a very brief Nashville chord progression, like so:

Joe Pitre, key F, 1111 5511

I might add some additional notations, like the tempo: BPM (beats per minute) 160 for a two step, BPM 145 for a Slide, BPM 120 for a waltz. I might add something about the time signature (4/4, 3/4, 6/8).

You can make it more elaborate if you want to, but adding information about Intro, Outro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge.

But I don't do it any more, probably because I don't really need to. But when I did use it, everyone immediately understood it.

I am not sure what you mean by hard hitter Cajun Pro musicians. I am not from Louisiana, and I lean more to the Zydeco side of things than Cajun in recent years (although there is a huge amount of overlap). But, I do get a lot of paying gigs, and I've been doing it for almost 30 years. So maybe I qualify. I can only tell you what I know. Maybe in Louisiana, they're doing something different, but I don't know why they would bother. The Nashville system has been around for a very long time, it is effective, it's easy to learn and lot's of people know it.

I don't know if it really matters what anyone else does. If you are looking for a system to use, the Nashville system is very good and it will work for you. Just do it!

Number system I was talking is simply the Nashville number system. It's no big secret system, or a cajun system. Majority of musicians I play with have used it for years. And everyone who explained it here, explained it correctly.
I was taught the number system by Rufus Thibodeaux years ago, and has been very helpful playing along some of the great talents I've been fortunate to play beside.
Someone asked why musicians like me don't come on this forum and comment. Are we too busy? Lol. I'm not really a person who participates in social media. I don't even have a Facebook page. Old school I guess. I stumbled upon this forum post by accident and thought I'd respond. Thanks for the interest and many kind words.

One thing I find useful for working out this kind of thing is the "chord clock".
Keep one on the inside cover of my song folder.

Still a lurker Pig sad sad sad

Randy, You think that I am Jerry Moody? Funny, Jerry Moody was the first person to offend me on this discussion page. It had something to do with "Pink Panties". Remember?

Did you find any more information that you were looking for?

I still think it will end up being the nashville number system, or something based on that. It would be interesting to know.

I'm keeping my eyes and ears open David. Anything more I find out I will let this discussion know by post. So far, I've gone with a permanent marker on each of my accordions and marked the 3 keys of the 3 different positions of each accordion I have so I can see them directly and not have to think about it. I put the markings on the top of the stop knobs. Looks "novice", but it works for me. I hope someone ask about it so I can blast them with the information. LOL. C accordion = C G F. D accordion = D A G 1st, 2nd, and 3rd position respectively. But everybody should already know this. It's how to communicate with the other musicians that's not so easy to decipher. at least my open display of the Keys directly on my accordion should open some discussion and thinking when others see it.

No my comment was directed to used to be that mother fker is Jerry hoooo Moody