Can somebody explain how the benchmark Amede Ardoin recordings are on a D box, yet Cajun accordion music has defaulted to the key of C? Fiddlers have to tune down for the C accordion, increasing their distain for the melodeon.

Jr. Martin made the remark, "Not many singers can sing all night with a D accordion. It'll wear you out!" Is this the answer?

Amede Ardion had an unusually high voice. Only a tiny percentage of men can sing that high.

On a D accordion, which he played, most of the time you will be playing in the 2nd position, which is A. That means, you will be expected to hit the A above middle C for many/most songs. For the vast majority of us, that will only end in tears.

Even a C accordion presents singing challenges for most men. Singing a G above middle C is also very difficult to achieve. I can just barely do it, and that is after years of instruction and practice and setting up your vocal mechanism exactly perfectly.

Some might say, well, just sing an octave lower. I suppose you could, but to me it would be WAY too low and would not sound that great.

That is why your hear zydeco players using keys that are lower than C. In the early 90's, Bb became the default for Zydeco. You would also find a smattering of A accordions. Somewhat later, maybe in the 2000's, the young generation of zydeco guys began using G accordions regularly, if not exclusively. In that case, you are singing in D most of the time, and that D above middle C is very comfortable for most. It allows singing in a more relaxed and bluesy style.

Great question -- I've wondered about this myself.

To my aging ears, the pre-Amede recordings of Joe Falcon and Cleoma Breaux sound like Falcon was playing a C box, but most other early recordings I've heard seem to be on a D.

If Marc Savoy is to be believed, the issue of fiddlers tuning down for a C accordion may not be relevant:

"The fiddlers' concept of the violin was that it was a diatonic instrument, one that could play in only one key and had to be tuned to whatever key it desired to play in. The concept of tuning to concert pitch and playing in whatever key was necessary to match up with the accordion had not yet developed and actually did not develop in Louisiana until 1960."

I wonder if Wade Falcon has any insight into this question?

The key of C as a choice because of the male voice is possible however does not explain why Quebec and Ireland, box playing countries, favor the key of D, and yes they do sing.

As to fiddlers tuning down to C, that is a Cajun, regional, affectation and virtually unknown elsewhere.. Violins diatonic.. as to Savoy, comments withheld.

You can either play the violin/fiddle in all keys or not.


World wide key preference in accordeons


Germany 2 row C/F then G/c and then Bb/Eb
Netherlands C/F by a lomg way
England D/G and single row C
Ireland B/C C#/D and D single row
Quebec D single row followed by C then A
Italy, G/C and a multitude of single row
France G/C and then A/D
Tex/Mex.. Norteno.... G/C/F... F/Bb/Eb
Dominican Republic Bb/Eb... one of the influences on Zydeco

There are very good reasons why fiddlers tune down a whole step when a C accordion is in use: it allows for the use of open string drone notes.

Playing drone notes is a notable characteristic of cajun fiddle style. It is a more powerful sound, it's more interesting and it just sounds good.

If a D accordion is in use, the fiddle player has open strings that can be played as drones without returning. But if the accordion is in C, drones cannot be played on the fiddle without retuning. Without retuning, the end result is you lose out on an important part of the sound.

I have seen numerous Cajun bands where the accordion player switches between a C and a D accordion. In those situations, it is very common that the fiddle player will have two fiddles, one tuned standard and the other tuned a whole step lower. Easy solution, and it sounds great.

Similarly, if only a C accordion is in use, it is almost guaranteed that the fiddler will have tuned the fiddle down.

I have never heard of fiddle players complaining about retuning their fiddles. If they are, it sounds a little amateurish to me. It reminds of amateur guitar players who only now how to play in guitar friendly keys like E, and get all bent out of shape if they are asked to play in F or Bb. Get over it!

The notion of using open strings is not limited to fiddles. Players of any stringed instrument use open strings to good advantage for certain special effects, provided that the key of the song allows for it. This is why guitar players use a capo. It's not because they don't know how to play in another key without it - it's for the simple reason of being able to use the power and effectiveness of open strings.

When Monarchs and Sterlings were made, they were available in many keys, not just C and D. You could purchase from the factory even G or A or even Bb. However, most stores that sold the accordions here weren't "music stores" in the sense you think of today. Generally, they were merchandise outlets that sold furniture and appliances and instruments (think Sears Roebuck style). If the store owner wanted to stock their store with instruments, rarely did they have the ability to stock plenty of each key in their store of all instruments alongside everything else. It was common for a store owner to purchase a few of everything and re-order inventory when it sold out.

Yes, the Amede recordings are all done in D. Most likely, this wasn't because Amede chose the key of D, but because of his rural circumstances, either buying one that was available to him second hand or maybe even one on loan. Who knows! But it was highly unlikely he opted to choose that key. It was available to him at that time when he traveled to make recordings. He may have even played on a C in his lifetime, but he didn't record with it (from what I can tell).

However, as one pointed out, Joe's recordings were in C. Having said this, be careful on the re-releases on CD since many of his recordings were either recorded in the studio at 1/2 step off or pressed at the factory 1/2 step off or the machines used to transfer these weren't playing at 78 RPM perfectly. That creates alot of modern transfers to make Joe's accordion sound more C# than C. At least that's what we've noticed.



If you look carefully at the ca.1928 photo here, you can clearly make out the Monarch in his hand. Also, we've personally run across Monarchs in G and in Bb, not loaded. So that goes to show you what store owners had at their disposal. Remember, Joe's first accordion was bought for him. Doubt he knew enough to choose the key himself. So by the time these gentlemen got around to recording the music, they used what they had available in their hands.

Over time, musicians determined what key was easier to sing and migrated to the C accordion at the expense of fiddle players and their open string drones. But people like Nathan and Iry, whom couldn't afford luxuries in the first place, played on what was given to them. Nathan's accordion after the war was purchased by Ernest and the band. Iry's was playing on his father's. Both of them Monarchs. Believe Nathan's was in C and Iry's in D. Hell, at first, Iry probably preferred learning on a D accordion since both of his idols, Angelas and Amede, both played D accordions. Iry would spend hours around their recordings, copying their style and sound.

Once Eagle Brands came out in the 30s, they remained for some time longer than the other 2 and you couldn't get them in any key but D. Different factory. So people like Sidney Brown would "load" them down to a C for people.

As far as preferences, conjunto players loved to play the accordion in D. They feel there's a certain pop or brightness that livens up the dance when the song is done in D. Vocals and fiddle aren't issues for them. Another factor is, many musicians asked about this sometimes admit the song "doesn't sound right" in the key of C. They prefer playing that particular song in the key of D, mainly due to the recordings. Also, vice versa.

Hope this sheds some light on the topic.
WF

To add to the confusion..I've personally heard Loui' of the Lost Bayou Ramblers say that their band prefers playing with the "D" accordion. That was a while back. Loui is the fiddle player, the singer, and the lead man of the band. So I figure he has some say as to what he likes or not.
I also play fiddle (novice) and the only problem I have with the "D" standard tuning on the fiddle, is that when I play and/or drone on the two smallest strings A and E, it's very high and piercing. This might have been one of the reasons "down tuning" came to be?? Otherwise, it seems you can do on a fiddle in standard tuning "D" what ever the hell you want to, as long as you're playing alone or with a "D" accordion. When they break out that "C" accordion, I have to tune my fiddle down to be able to play along given the rudimentary playing method I know. I can drone though, and drone playing is the absolute preferred method, when it's applicable that is. I once heard an ole timer say that he would start the dance playing with the "C" accordion and switch to "D" accordion to pep things up a bit on the last half of the night. Personally, I started out with a "C" accordion going by what everybody told me. "Those got dam jam sessions all play in "C". I guess for the simple reason of keeping it consistent. But I'd pick the "D" accordion over the "C" if I had to keep one and give the other away. The brightness of the "D" makes me happy and when played in the first position in the key of "D" ,if the singing is done like it's supposed to be, it's hard to beat. Singing in the key of "A" not so good. I have a standard tuned "D" and a 15cent wet tuned "C" accordion that sounds exactly like Iry Lejeune's accordion. With one stopper pushed down, I can make it dry tuned if I want to. This combination of the two accordions keeps me happy and satisfied. As far as Bflat or any other key, I say F*** THAT! That's only for confusing the hell out of beginner accordion players, fancy conniving professional players, and making us want to go spend another $2000 to buy and odd key accordion that won't match up to any of the old recordings. Why bother? To me, b flat singing sounds dull and flaccid. LOL. I'd sure like to know which Louisiana accordion player or builder first introduced the B flat to Cajun music. Because I might want to kick him in da nuts a time or two. I'm with you on this one Nedro! Yeah, WHY "C"????

And Furthermore! I think that all jam sessions should feature the "C" accordion one week and then the "D" accordion the next. For the benefit of variety. Fiddlers would have all dam week to retune their fiddles, or they can just grab their other fiddle that stays tuned "Sandard". This would be announced by the first chair master accordion player. He would tell everyone which accordion to bring the next week. Or, if you ever go to a jam sessions bring the "C" and the "D" if you weren't at the previous one and didn't get the memo. I once witnessed a young player walk in to the Savoy Music Center jam session unannounced with a "D" accordion and he was given 1st chair. That dude smoked it! When I say he played every button on that accordion I mean it. He knew what he was doing. I didn't see one fiddle player complain. Some of them retuned, some of them didn't. But I was just starting out and didn't know exactly what to look for. All I knew was, I couldn't play along with this "D" accordion player because all I had was a "C" accordion.

PS. Iry Lejeune did a few recorded songs with a "D" accordion. Not many, but he did.

PSS. I heard that it was Walter Mouton that introduced the B flat accordion due to him getting older and his voice needed a break. Steve Riley made it popular and mystical because all kinds of accordion players were trying to parakeet his songs. And then somebody called "BULL S***". B flat not so popular anymore now is it?

PSSS. Some fiddle players love B flat over all else. They say it's the easiest accordion to play with???? Never was able to fiddle along with a B flat accordion so I couldn't experience it. That's probably because there's no B flat accordions allowed in my vicinity! By God!

As a matter of fact, here is that accordion player that walked in to the Savoy Music Center jam session way back then and played that "D" accordion. He was younger and wore a butt cut parted hair style back then. LOL, but that didn't matter much.

Well Ned. Looks like you got a whole lot of answer there. This was a really fascinating discussion for me to read. I have no music background and just know what buttons to mash to make a sound.

Pretty funny when someone asks me to play an E note for them on one of my boxes. I have to count it out and then am not quite sure.


John in Oregon

Hey John, I've been through "not being sure" when asked to play in a certain key on accordion. Unfortunately, Marc Savoy didn't lay that part out too clear on his instruction videos. Neither did any of the other "Lesson Giving Masters." Mostly it's learned trial and error and memorizing after you've played along with a guitar or fiddle player. Some accordion players don't have that luxury. Back to fiddlers having to retune their fiddles to match up to a "D" accordion at a jam session.
PERSONALLY, IT TAKE ME ROUGHLY 1 MINUTE 30 SECONDS TO RETUNE TO STANDARD USING A CLIP ON TUNER. Some fiddlers are faster and do it by ear. I ONLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH MY SMALL "FINE TUNE" ADJUST SCREWS. I DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TOUCH MY BIG TUNING PEGS TO GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN "STANDARD" "d" TUNING AND "DOWN TUNING" "c". It's actually not that hard and no fiddler should complain about having to do it. But remember, you don't want to argue too much with a fiddler. We accordion players need all the fiddle players we can get!

Gotta love this video!

I was told that C was selected by the German promoters of the accordion.

Their approach was simple; "Vee Vill play und you Vill Listen". I makes as much sense as all the other reasons I have heard, :) :)

I much prefer my D/A melodeon but it lacks the Cajun sound.

Of course great music is great music, no matter what key it is in.

Ok RPr..Let's all speculate shall we. No need for anything solid or backed by evidence. Just throw on the table whatever pops into the old brain eh? I'm real good at doing that!!
I submit that the Germans didn't promote any certain key of accordion. They just sent what ever the ignorant store owners ordered. "Just send me a standard tuned accordion" they might have said?? LOL. I farther submit that the early Cajun fiddlers played with their fiddles tuned standard which would go nicely with a "D" accordion if you were able to get your hands on a "D" accordion. The first accordions, from what I read, didn't match up well to the standard tuned Cajun fiddles at first because they were in keys other than "D". Maybe the first accordions were in "G"?? But at some point in time the fiddle and the accordion got in sinc!! I would venture to say that this happen because a "D" accordion was purchased at some point in our history and that accordion player sat down and played along with a fiddle that was tuned "Standard"....and they hit it off! Remember to keep in mind that the Cajun accordion players learned their songs from the fiddler's repertoire at first. They then evolved to adapt to whatever music was available with the invention of radio. Lots of old timey tunes that would have been played on the radio would have probably been done in the keys of "D", "A", and "E". As in our Appalacian mountain music. Maybe that's where the term "Standard Tuned Fiddle" came from. Tuned standard to play "D, A, or E music! By God it wasn't "C"!! It was "D"! Why did it change?
I lastly submit that accordion players started getting "C" accordions because some popular accordion player like Joseph Falcon, or Lawrence Walker, or "IRY Lejeune" made all those old borrowed hits on a "C" accordion, and everybody wanted to be able to do just like him. Steven Riley did the same got dam thing with the "Bflat" accordion. B flat accordion sales went up after he produced all of his "stolen" hits layed down on his first CD's. I say "stolen" because they were just old songs taken by Steven Riley and the gang and redone and presented as new to the ignorant masses. Even as far as doing some of them in B flat. If you don't believe me, be on the look out for my future posts. I will prove to all of you ,for example, that Iry Lejeune took Amede Ardoins work, which was all in "D" and redid it in a manner not so easily recognized when Iry recorded them himself. Iry changed the speed of Amede's music and the key of the accordion to hide the fact that he was borrowing Amede Ardoins work. Which consequently, Amede also borrowed it from someone else that came before him. Oh, it gets pretty twisty. All kinds of manipulation and intrigue I tell you what! Hell, Elvis did the same dam thing. Stole from the old black blues singers, and made millions from it. Not to mention having the title of "The King" bestowed upon him.

Just something to add to this interesting topic, it may be irrelevant but the standard key for a harmonica tends to be C. As with Cajun accordion any instructional CDs feature a C harmonica and those beginner sets you can buy come with an instrument in C.
A is a popular blues harmonica key but C is considered the all round starter key.

Apparently if you go to a Cajun style jam in France the preferred key of accodion is D.

Consider the choices in musical keys A,B,C,D,E,F,G. Which key is exactly mid range? "D"...with 3 keys before it and after it. So why not choose to manufacture midrange "D" accordions? Makes sense to me. Not to mention how they would fit like a glove together with standard tuned (G,D,A,E) fiddles.

Nedro and others, let me point out another reason that the D accordion
might have been right for the early cajun singers.

Cajun men were, in general, smaller
than their grandchildren and great grand children are now at a comparable age.

A cursory study of the anatomy and physiology of the larynx, vocal cords,
and would suggest that the resultant smaller structures in smaller men would
change the acoustic properties of the resonating chamber. A smaller
larynx would naturally create a higher pitch.

John, your scientific analysis holds water. Small fellows with high voices. Tours of the River Road plantations near New Orleans point out that the French Caucasians were quite small, possibly 6 or 7 inches shorter than the present norm.

250 years of gumbo, boudin, and jambalaya have doubtless contributed to the dimensional assimilation of the Cajuns.