Welcome to old and new friends who are interested in discussing Cajun and other diatonic accordions, along with some occasional lagniappe....



CAJUN ACCORDION DISCUSSION GROUP

 

General Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

In a musical measure one long note is a whole note
2 notes that take the same amount of time are half notes
4 would be quarter notes in the same space
8 would be eight notes..
16 would be sixteenth notes.


http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/11

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

My god guys. Talk about getting into some detail. If you'd a mentioned 1/8th notes and such to someone like my grandpa, who played piano, fiddle, and accordion, he'd a slapped you acrosst the face!

It all boils down to the music you're exposed to. In the old days, the guy with the biggest selection of records to listen to learned the best. That or the guy who would hall himself to the dances and pay to listen to as many musicians as possible. Or in the case of my great uncle, he would drive to the dances, park outside, and go and sit on the outside of the building or lean on the wall nearest the bandstand and just listen.

Many a modern day Cajun and non Cajun musician have become successful by finding and re-recording versions of old Cajun songs that no body was listening to or had no access to.

All done by ear and putting hands to meat so to speak. I don't think they worried too too much about 1/8th notes if at all.

The advantage of such information isn't going to help you much. You got to find those songs that are out there now available all over youtube and use them to your advantage and to give your ear some variety. Hurry up now, because it won't be long before every old song has been re-recorded and put on some undeserving jack ass's new cd.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

I'm with ya there Greezy. I just mash buttons. Occasionally I manage to make it sound not too offensive.

I'm not even completely sure which button on my C-accordion is the C note. But to quote Ratbert in the Dilbert comic.....



Substitute "accordion" for "computer" and we're there. Or.. at least there with the concept.

John in Oregon

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

I get it!

While you're struggling with that accordion, I'm naked, clueless and feeling GOOD!

So Braves: take all your clothes off and throw that accordion out of the window!!

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Ha cat, we might just be better off doing just that! That accordion is the Devil I tell you! The Devil!

But how long before our family members commit us for walking around naked all the time?

Everyone, just keep in mind that the different pressures and length of time you press those buttons on that keyboard and work those bellows make a difference in the way your playing sounds. If you don't believe that, listen to a beginner's song that hasn't gotten the feel for the accordion due to lack of years experience and guidance and then listen to an old master put the magic touch of years of playing on that accordion.

Unfortunately, there is a sweet spot in your years of accordion playing. Most masters lose that special touch as their lives come to an end due to the breakdown of the accordion, body, brain, and soul connection. Some new players are able to play in the sweet spot in the beginning and lose it due to more complicated button combinations, more difficult songs, and the frustration of trying to become a master. They lose their direction because they get baffled by bull **** from another accordion player.

Yes, when I first started, I heard an accordion master take my brand new tight accordion and make it sound like it was an old monarch just by his touch and guarded knowledge of the accordion. I took back the accordion and just turned it over and over looking at it and then at him. He just smiled and offered no information what so ever. Except for these words. "There's nothing wrong with that accordion, but I like mine better." Only after a lot of money spent and time passing, I'm just getting what he meant. And then, I still question exactly what he meant by that.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

I know very little about music theory, but what I do know is that the people who know it and are musically literate can go anywhere in the world and look at musical notation and play.

Many of my my favorite box players are musically literate..mostly Europeans and Quebecers.

Never hursts to know stuff, can hurt if you don't.


But aural traditions such as Cajun apparently have no need of it.. not a part of the culture. The music is great without dwelling on it.

I have learned many pieces on the one row by transcribing from written musical notation such as music by Ed Reavey (sp)

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

I know some musical theory. If you really did want to apply this to Cajun music it does not take a big effort. As musical theory goes Cajun music is very straightforward - three octaves, four kinds of notes and a melody that works with the bass buttons and the occasional syncopation. It may come as no surprise that this is indeed all the 'old masters' played. Every player though adds there own emphasis on this cold hard collection of musical notes and I personally like to break down the 'old masters' playing because I'm interested in learning their technique. Aural or written is not a big deal - depends on the kind of journey you want but the destination is the same.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Mr Guy, I have been looking for someone to explain the word "syncopation". How can that word be explained so as to make easy sense to the "straight forward" accordion player's ears and mind?
I heard it said for the first time by Wilson Savoy on video. I just figured it to be baffling bull S*** at first, but I know differently now. Can you take a crack at explaining such a noun as syncopation.

This is the Wikipedia definition, but I find it dry and short on explanation as how it applies to a Cajun accordion player.

"In music, syncopation involves a variety of rhythms which are in some way unexpected which make part or all of a tune or piece of music off-beat. More simply, syncopation is a general term for "a disturbance or interruption of the regular flow of rhythm": a "placement of rhythmic stresses or accents where they wouldn't normally occur." The correlation of at least two sets of time intervals. Also known as an "Uneven movement from bar to bar".

And what the hell brought Wilson to become familiar with such a word and actually use it in his presentation of speech? Did he do some mushrooms while living in a tent in India or something?

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

That definition sounds more like "rubato" not syncopation.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Well it was the definition given under syncopation wiki leaks. But rubato? Hmmmmm interesting. I'll look that one up too.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it


Rubato means "stolen time" or "free in tempo" and maybe that fits better for Cajun music but an unlimited use of rubato ends in a chaos
This or syncopation is one of the most difficult things to pick up with attemps to play Cajun music and I was growng up in a Hum-Pa-pa culture
Great subject and I'm very obliged with all contributions and that's were this forum is ment for

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Mr Greezy, I hope this explanation seems straight forward. A whole note has a length of time equal to four beats in a four/four time signature. So each beat is then a quarter of a whole note. In Cajun two steps your bass buttons are playing the quarter notes, keeping the beat. The melody buttons are usually playing eighth notes, so that's two notes per quarter note or two notes per one bass chord. When you play on-the-beat the bass chords and a melody note are in step - that is they occur simultaneously and so playing four quarter note bass chords the melody eighth notes coincide with the chord for 1,3,5 and 7. You can also play off-the-beat, say the last bar of an A-part, by playing the same four quarter note bass chords with five melody notes such as, in order, an eighth note, a quarter note, a three quarter note and two eighth melody notes for the repeat pick-up. In this case the bass chords are the same as before at the 1,3,5 and 7 places but the melody notes are now played at the 1,2,4 and 7 places i.e. off-beat. This is syncopation.

If you can count to eight you will have cracked this and verified by using four fingers of the left hand and five of the right on a flat surface. You will also have eclipsed Prof. Nedro's complete knowledge of musical theory.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

A three quarter note..?

A quarter note with flags ?
An eighth note with flags..
A whacked out triplet ?

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Three quarter note..
I finally figured it out..

A dotted half note.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Mr Guy. Whew! We sure don't hear that kind of talk at a local jam session or when we visit the old masters to hear them play a few songs and maybe join them for cush cush, loss bread, and some coffee milk if asked.
I'm gonna study that definition. I want to find a recording that gives an obvious example of this rubato or syncopation. Or maybe you or Meloderon know of one.

As for Prof Nedro. I was just messing with him. He's a good man. I know what he's talking about with them 1/8th notes, but it makes me laugh and then almost cry to know that many an ole timer Cajun accordion player had not even one inkling of what an 1/8th note, rubato, or syncopation was. Hell, there weren't even French words for such things. That's why someone like my Grandpa would have slapped another across the face if mention was made of these words. He'd a thought he was being cussed in some unknown language or his person and his music was being insulted with that music theory talk going over his head. It's so hilarious to me that it's almost sad for us poor ignorant Cajuns that could sure play the living hell out of Cajun music without so much as one class or one word on music theory possessed within our collective memories. You gotta wonder how that happened.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Mr Greezy your down-home philosophy could be right in step with Orwell's 'Ministry of Truth' - check out their slogans. Mr Jeff - believe it or not the fractional musical notes are not used in the UK e.g. eighth = quaver; quarter = crotchet; three quarter = dotted crotchet etc. so I was translating. Once again we are separated by a common language.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Mr. Jeff - error in translation - 'three quarter' should have read 'three eighths'.

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Well, let's see what I can do with that to make it even more complex. : )

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Yes, I am familiar with the Brit music lingo..
I have quite a few Melodeon books from the "island" : )

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

I really don't know any record with examples of rubato or syncopation.
I know that syncopation has to do with playing beside the beat, but what Mr. Guy is writing look a bit mathematical to me just like everything what has to do with music-theory in which I'm not an expert.
I know how to find the ABCDEFG flat or sharp in a music-notation and that's it.
Until yesterday I never know about rubato
The effect we all want to get with playing Cajun is a matter of feeling and listen a lot to Cajun music is the most important thing to get it.
And dancing is a good friend for it, but not on wooden shoes

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Chris Miller gives an example of it here:

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Awesome.
Maybe Chris can explain it, because he knows everything about music theory and also know how to play Cajun Music

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

A great example! Chris is THA Man.
This version sounds quite "Creole", and I think there's a lot of Africa in it.
Syncopation of the most exciting aspects of Cajun/Creole music. I love it!

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

FLASHBACK: During rehearsal, Amede thumbs back a page and says, "Mais, Denus, let's take it again from the coda, and this time give me a little more fortissimo..."

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Musical terms (Italian)

http://www.musictheory.org.uk/res-musical-terms/italian-musical-terms.php

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

more fortissimo = louder = piu forte

syncopation = sincope

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Example of rubato

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAWCSDbt2rQ

Re: Perrodin Two Step - Love it or hate it

Syncopation made easy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9QnepxnMNU



Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

LFR1.gif - 1092 Bytes The April 2011 Dewey Balfa Cajun & Creole Heritage Week

augusta.gif - 6841 Bytes

Listen to Some GREAT Music While You Surf the Net!!
The BEST Radio Station on the Planet!