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Thumb strap

Hey people of the cajun accordion interweb,

Greezy's post about rosin up a thumbstrap (in another thread) showed up right when I'm facing a huge thumbstrap problem.

For some reason, I can't really adjust to the thumbstrap on my cajun accordion. It is loooooong. As a result, my thumb often slips out of its position. I tried different strap lenghts, tried to fit my thumb backward and twist the strap and still, same issue. The god **** strap is just too freakn long.

I've seen cajun accordions with different thumb strap lenght (i.e. location on the fingerboard). Some are shorter, meaning the screw plate fixing the strap on the fingerboard is closer to the edge of the fingerboard. On my accordion, the screw plate is located right next to the endframe, making the strap even longer than most cajun accordions.

I'm really used to playing my Hohner 114s. The strap on a 114 is riveted (or screwed) right next to the edge of the fingerboard. This I find really comfortable: the thumb can't move back and forth, it's locked in position and the hand is stable.

Is it possible to relocate the thumbstrap on my cajun accordion so that it's screwed in next to the edge of the fingerboard? (like, about an inch)

I'm concerned about fitting the screws into very thin wood. Also, I'm concerned about having the screws sticking out inside the fingerboard and blocking the movement of a key or two.

Thanks for sharing your experience!

OB

Re: Thumb strap

Boudreaux, please don't tell me you stuck your thumb in that thumb strap from the top and twisted it around to get a tighter fit???!!!!!

Don't do that. If you live around Lafayette, you need to take that accordion to Jr Martin or whoever built it and ask them to adjust your thumb strap or change it out completely. You don't want to pop new screw holes into your accordion if you don't have to.

If you're having to twist it like that, it needs looking after. Your thumb, when placed in a correct sized and well positioned strap, should just clear the finger board curved edge and it should lock in around the edge pointing up or slightly forward. Your playing fingers should automatically fall onto your home buttons 5,6,7,8.

I have actually almost beat the living hell out of a man for twisting the thumb strap of my accordion after I reluctantly let him play for about 2 seconds. Needless to say, he'll never touch my accordion again. Twist my thumb strap? I don't tink so!

Or you could put a handkerchief around your thumb like the ole men. They do that cause their skin is so sensitive that the thumb strap eats their skin up. If the handkerchief makes the fit better, then you probably have a "size" problem. And no you don't need to buy any of those thumb enlarger pills they sell on the internet. It's been my experience that they do not work as promised. Pahahahaha

Re: Thumb strap

The strap can definitely be adjusted to be shorter, and the screws can probably be moved closer the edge. The keyboard is in 2 pieces, and the screws that hold the strap need to be in the section with the rocker arms because there is plenty "meat" there to hold them. The section with buttons is pretty thin. I varied on my own accordion by using one screw instead of 2 so it can swivel just a little, making it easier to reach that #1 button, but i know what you mean I think, if the screws are too far from the edge, it gives kind of feel that lacks stability and firmness.

Re: Thumb strap

Solid and sound advice Bryan. Greg Mouton uses that single screw method also with a washer for that extra swivel or strap flexibility. Good idea and valuable information for Boudreaux and anyone else when they confront a builder about thumb strap placement. Ahhhh the ole #1 button. So neglected and out of reach. A well adjusted and properly installed thumb strap will make "ole #1" available to any accordion player. This is seldom talked about but very important!

One other hint. When attempting to play back up rhythm using buttons 1,2,3 while singing, the task becomes easier if the thumb is unlocked and slid around the back of the keyboard block. Sort of similar to Sylvester Stallone's "over the top" trick.

Re: Thumb strap

Castagnari and most Italian makers use the single screw method of attachment for greater mobility with a strap that swivels.

My 1920s Swiss made 2 1/2 row D/G box also has a very clever swivel strap.

I solved the problem long ago..I don't use the thumb strap. I use a shoulder strap and anchor my thumb against the edge of the "fingerboard".

I go so far as to make fingerboards with a thumb groove the length of the "fingerboard" . Many Italian makers and Irish box makers and French accordion makers and Quebec makers build boxes with thumb grooves.


http://bellingersbuttonboxes.com/product/castagnari-studio-dg-accordion-players-delight/

Re: Thumb strap

There are a number of diatonic button accordions that come with no thumb strap at all. Some even with a groove on the end of the finger board to rest your thumb in. How does this work? magic?

Re: Thumb strap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFPmxtnzebg

You may have to copy and paste to get the link.

Re: Thumb strap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPCD0l1X1Oc

Rees Playing one of his own self made boxes with DIX reeds.

Note thumb on edge of board.

You may have to copy and paste to get the link.


Here is another player, David Munnelly of Ireland. He usually plays a 2 row C#/D or 2 1/2 row C#/D but also plays the melodeon (a Castagnari of course)

He has an unusual style to include the thumb on the back edge ( behind on the 2 row) but no thumb strap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7cfMuJQb_I

You may need to copy and paste the link

Re: Thumb strap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7cfMuJQb_I

David Munnelly is an unusual player.. mostly 2 row C#/D but also plays the one row (Castagnari of course)

and he plays with his thumb on the back edge of the box or thumb behind... but no thumb strap.

You may need to copy and paste the link.

Re: Thumb strap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOAIrPXh_Hc

You may need to copy and paste to view the link.

This is Brendan Begley of Ireland on a Castagnari in "D"

He is about 6'5" tall and has huge hands.

Note he has added a piece to the fingerboard to get his fingers away from the buttons..
The piece also has a thumb groove and no thumb strap.

Re: Thumb strap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwHFmUJBiUM

You may need to copy and paste to see

Damien Mullane playing a Savoy Acadian box..

Note no thumbstrap.

Re: Thumb strap

I've made one box with a grooved keyboard edge for an Irish player, it may be conducive to playing the fast single fingered playing those genres do, but for me, it doesn't work very well for Cajun style playing. It may be something I could get used to, but I didn't like it for Cajun music.

Re: Thumb strap

Thanks y'all for the good advice.

Bryan, if I understand correctly, there's a limit where I can't screw in my strap without asking for trouble?
How do I determine that limit?
If I go for a one screw / swivel option, what size screw should I look for?
Heck, I've never pulled a keyboard apart. I guess it's about time to do it and learn a thing or two about accordion construction.

Greezy, I don't mind putting new holes in my accordion. A previous owner already moved the thumbstrap a bit closer to the 1 button and botched the job. There's a couple extra misaligned screw holes now. It is ugly as fck. I was thinking about moving the thumbstrap as close as I can to the edge then cover the previous holes with a little brass plate with something cool engraved - my name, or most likely, "couillon" -

Re: Thumb strap

If you look at the keyboard, it is in two parts, the part with the rocker arm closest to the face plate, and the part with the button holes. Do not put in the piece with the button holes. I attach mine on the rocker arm section, 1/2" from the joint of the two pieces. You can probably get by with 1/4" from that joint edge, which should put it about 1 3/8" from the outside edge, depending on how wide the builder made the button hole section.

I use #4 screws on the thumb strap. There are slots inside the keyboard section with the rocker arms to accommodate the rockers, you need to stay off to the side of that slot. Most people put the strap about in between the 4 and 5 button. I attached the single screw on mine in between the 4 and 5, but closer to the 5, just stay out of the slot. You may have to take the keyboard off to see good where the slot is. If you email me, I can send you pics of how I have mine. I promise to maintain your anonymity.

Re: Thumb strap

Haha Jeff, them Irish have a peculiar playing style. They set down and play with a shoulder strap! It's got to be helping to hold that accordion in place. I can't imagine what situation came about to cause the Irish to remove their thumb straps completely. Me, I don't own a shoulder strap on purpose because I refuse to play standing, which is why the Cajuns have shoulder straps. For when they play on the bandstand when they play standing up. I just play sitting and the thumb strap, base strap, and that accordion on my knee is all I need to keep hold of it. I also see them Irish favor the top buttons of their keyboard while Cajuns favor the middle on down. Interesting.

Handing a Cajun an accordion without a thumb strap would be like asking us to drive a rice truck without a steering wheel. We could make it work eventually but probably wouldn't like it too much. I personally would use a pipe wrench properly adjusted and then gorilla taped to the steering nut. Been there and done that. LoL. Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do to get that rice to the mill. Ever seen a rice truck pop a wheelie?

Re: Thumb strap

Well .. Here's what I do ..

The thumb strap will stretch over time so I've needed to make adjustments
repeatedly until the strap stabilizes ..

I remove the 2 screws that hold the strap. I make two new holes in the STRAP
that will create a tighter loop when the strap is reinstalled.
I replace the screws in the same place that they were, but now the strap is
a smaller loop.

--bn

Re: Thumb strap

I thought all builders did this, but maybe not. I make 3 sets of holes in both ends, which in effect gives 6 fine adjustments. Even if the leather didn't stretch, and it always does, there is no one size fits all.

Speaking of straps, one thing I've discovered a year or two ago, is for me, the base strap is much more comfortable if its angled back where it's more over the top of the hand and not the knuckles.

Re: Thumb strap

How true...

As a bass player to include 2 rows and three rows.. if the strap is over your knuckles you simply can't have the same mobility.

I watched the "Irish" videos.. they were all over the keyboard...

Check out David Munnelly again...


I have a few (non Cajun) tunes that use all ten buttons.

Re: Thumb strap

Thanks again for the detailed answers folks.

Bryan, I checked my accordion, and yeah you right the keyboard is in two parts. Never noticed that. The joint is pretty well matched and hard to spot tho.
The little metal plate holding the thumb strap is 1/2" away from the joint (measured from joint to center of the screw holes). I guess moving the screws 1/4" away won't produce a significant difference in the feel of the strap, so I'll have to stick to it.
However I noticed the keyboard on my accordion must be extra wide, as the screw holes are actually a hair more than 2 inches away from the edge of the fingerboard. Now I understand why the thumbstrap seems a bit longer than the norm.

Re: Thumb strap

Cut a thumb groove in it..
Shortens the distance to the buttons and you can eliminate the restrictive thumb strap.

Yer welcome.

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

Jeffery Broussard is playing without using a thumbstrap on a one row.
He also play a three row, so he's used to play without.
Remarkable is that he also use his thumb to play the one row
After 1 minute 25.
See link#2

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

Ha! I've just bought a used Bb accordion that has never had a thumb strap so this is good info.
It makes sense in zydeco not to use a thumb strap as buttons 1-3 are used a lot, especially for the breakdown.
Think I'll give it a go.

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

No its' no good- definitely needed a thumb strap, so got a nice scrap of leather from the cobblers and followed Bryan's advice. Used some washers and a felt washer underneath to give free movement and it works a treat.
Sure I'd have made a mess of it if this topic hadn't come up, so thanks braves.

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

Hey folks,

I'm still chewing on my existential thumbstrap questions and found that old post from Ganey:

"I played for years with the strap just long enough for me to stick my thumb in and rest the left edge on my thumb on the end of the keyboard. The result was a constant ache from my thumb being stressed in a direction that it does not bend.
One day, I attended a 50th Anniversary party that Paul Daigle was playing. He allowed me to sit in for a few songs. Paul has his strap a little higher up the keyboard, and as a result, I was forced to plant the flat part of my thumb on the end of the keyboard so that I could reach the bottom of the keyboard. It made my hand much more mobile. I went home and adjusted all my thumb straps to allow me to position my thumb in that manner. I never moved my strap up, but I have been contemplating doing that. I don't use the top button. Even if I wanted to, I can't reach it. I do, however use the second button, and it is sometimes difficult for me to reach. Moving the strap would make that much easier."

I'm wondering whether I should reposition my strap a bit higher.
On my accordion (thumbstrap is in the standard position, between buttons 4 and 5) I could easily reach an hypothetical button 13 with my pinky... button 2 is much harder to reach though. My 3 main fingers have their "home position" in the buttons 6 to 9 range.
It would make sense to screw the strap between buttons 3 and 4 (a notch higher) so the "home position" sits not quite as low on the keyboard. Think I'm a test fit it with some vise or something and see what it does before actually drilling the thing.

Sunday ponderings LOL...

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

I accidentally installed a strap one button space up on a keyboard, which would have been a really big deal to fix. Before attempting it, I told the customer about it and let him try it, and offered to leave as is or fix. He said he liked it better that way. Whew. When I played it, like many changes, it threw things off for a few minutes, but once I adjusted, it was no problem, and it sure does make it a lot easier to reach the 1 and 2 buttons, and since the pinky stretches easy, the 10 wasn't hard to reach. But this would be a very personal thing.

Re: Thumb strap Jeffery Broussard

UPDATE

I finally pulled the trigger and moved the thumbstrap up a bit. I set the strap up with 2 screws (standard), right beneath the 4th button (one screw in between buttons 3 and 4 and the other screw between buttons 4 and 5, strap in the middle).

I can feel a definite improvement. Button 10 is not significantly harder to reach with the pinky (I have moderately long fingers) but the hand falls quite naturally on buttons 3, 2 and even 1.

I would recommend this mod to players with medium or bigger hands as well as zydeco guys who use the button 1 a lot (I don't). I could also see how having the thumbstrap between buttons 3 and 4 may be over the top.

Re: Thumb strap

UPDATE, UPDATE

I read back over this thread today after much contemplation and having to move one of my accordion's thumb straps, and I do believe Orville and Bryan are on to something. I had said earlier that if the thumb strap is correctly located on the keyboard, that your 4 fingers should fall naturally on buttons 5,6,7,8. What if that is WRONG?!!!!!! Nobody challenged me when I typed it got dammit!

What if your 4 fingers should fall naturally on buttons 3,4,5,6? After all, buttons 3 and 6 on the push make the "C" chord on a "C" accordion. That would be considered the home position on a "C" accordion for playing in the key of "C" on the push. (The First Position).

Look at the old HA-114 Hohners. Look at where they place the thumb its freakin high and has an upward slant like the hour hand of a clock pointing to 2:30 o'clock. Savoy's Acadian accordions also have this same 2:30 upward slant and the top outside end of the strap falls even with the bottom of button 3. I say the "Germans" got it right, and so did "Savoy". They knew something that most of us didn't.

"That a correctly placed and correctly slanted thumb strap will allow optimum playability and finger reach to all 10 buttons when playing in all the 6 different positions or keys of play!!!"

This epiphany came to me when trying to play Slim Doucet's "Chere Yeux Noir" exactly like he probably played it. Using all of the 10 buttons. The high pitch buttons for one part of the song(mids on down) and the low pitch buttons for the other part of the song (mids on up to button 1. I was able to play it easier on my black "KING" accordion "D" which has a higher thumb strap setting. After I changed out and corrected the thumb strap on my "C" accordion to match the "KING", voila! Played it very easily like a Champ!

Ponder carefully what I have said here. It means the difference of a "good player" and a "Champion Player".
After all this time, you'd think it would be common knowledge.



Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

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