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Re: Amplified Accordion Case

There are builders and accordion techs who are using older Ho9hner reeds. Well tuned they work well.

If a builder is smart, he orders parts direct from Italy or the Czech Republic and saves a considerable amount of money.

Other than some details such as lay down reeds/reed blocks.. there are some builders that are highly respected for their one row accordeons... Beltuna, Castagnari, Melodie, Messervier, Clement Breton, Sagne, Rees Weeson of Wales, etc.

The top 3 Cajun makers use butt joints.. yes here we are again.. that is a low tech expedient mass produced, cheap way of making a chassis and none, not one, of those other makers uses butt joints. Why? Pride and respect for the buyer/player.

It comes down to
Design
Materials
Workmanship

With few exceptions such as Brian LaFleur, the majority of Cajun made boxes follow a pattern.. some builders such as Jude Moreau take workmanship to another level and use mitered joints.

How many of you have played a quality one row not made by a Cajun ? Try one.

A new Beltuna or Castaganari .. around $2500.. fit, finish, playability.. tone (subjective) the best that's why I own and play other boxes.. for what you get.. they are a bargain.

I very much like some Cajun made boxes and have owned several..
more than 30 one rows in total... 50 accordeons over all to include 2, 2 1/2 and 3 row boxes.

I am all for tradition.. but the tradition of Cajun box making copied cheap Saxon made imports, not one at a time Gepetto at the bench accordeons.
There are better designs and technology.
Just as music evolves , so does accordion design and construction.


Over $2500 for a butt jointed box.. that is a joke.

The guy making the money in the Cajun accordion world is not the few boxes a year hand maker,it's the big name production boxes and more than that .. it is the guy selling the parts and pieces.. and this is true of violin makers, guitar makers etc.

BTW I like Hohners a lot.

PS wood is one of the least expensive elements in an accordeon.

Try buying a concertina.. then you'll know what expensive is.

Overall I think accordeons are a good deal.. but buy right and put aside origin bias.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

I like accordions with butt joinery. They are traditional to the Louisiana Cajun accordion. My ancient Acadian plays fine as do my two Bon Tee Cajun boxes. Couldn't and wouldn't ask for more... (nanner -- nanner -- nanner!)

And speaking of precision items, have you ever shot a Sig P238 HD? Talk bout great things in small packages. It's been my daily carrier for a while now. I prefer it to the Glock 32, especially in summer clothes... Check one out. $$$ but worth it.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Tommy,

Luv ya like a brother.. I'm a wheel gun guy..

Butt joints cheap smoke and mirrors the lowest common denominator
Crawdads on the bellows ( which they farm out ) cutesy crap.

It is expedient and standing on one only proves it's an ammo box not a musical instrument.. .. (further comments with held)

Once , again, all the detractors.. have you played a Clement Breton, A Melodie, Messervier, Sagne, Beltuna, Castagnari.. thought so.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

My wheel gun is the stainless GP100 under my pillow. Pull the trigger and it goes bang every time, but as a carry? Forget it. The 32 is a perfect truck gun. I think .357 Sig is an unbeatable round. And the Sig 238HD is a terrific carry when it eats social ammo like Hornady's "Critical Defense."

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

I wouldn't consider a revolver for a concealed carry...
Just saw a Sig 9mm that was really cool and weenie..

I have been looking at .357 in rifles.

The GP100 is a fine unit.
I have a 1915 Savage .32 Model 1910.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

About ten years ago, accordion prices went waaaay up. The reason was the dollar to euro ratio was not in the builders' favor. Italian bellows and reeds were more and more expensive each year so the final product price had to reflect this.

As of today, the dollar to euro ratio is pretty much 1 to 1. I haven't experienced a price decrease of accordions in recent times though.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

I laid down the following comment on youtube tonight. It was a video about pyramid building and such. I thought it would fit this particular thread very nicely. Sorry I haven't been commenting lately, but I have a severe case of the red ass. I'm currently working on it in order to come back out and face the world in full glory and wisdom. LOL Enjoy my theory below.

"I knew it! Them pyramids were nothing more than the equivalent to the city water towers we have now throughout the country of America. They'd catch the water down below where it was nice and filtered and cold, pump it up through all those small little tubes and hidden holding pressure chambers that no one can explain, and pipe it down the outside decline to the surrounding town with water pressure to boot! They added layers on top as the surrounding town and farms grew bigger and the water needed to travel farther and farther. Ever wonder why the pyramids were located next to the Nile flood plain at one time? Well, for the gat dam water! Aliens they said, tombs of kings they said, magical mystical magnetic power generators they said, advanced civilization they said. Ha, all made up complete and total bull **** to help attract tourists and to sell tourists trinkets! How do I know? Well mystery and nostolgia sells! We do it in Louisiana all the time with our Cajun music, our food, and our way of life. There's always some dope willing to pay huge amounts of money for the mysterious and the nostolgic, which is all the same to us. We live with the stuff every day and some of us are finding a way to make a buck off of it no matter what the cost. After all...A dollar is a dollar."

Just pretty printed paper with no real value what so ever unless we say and agree that it has value. Hey, feeds the family and buys us all kinds of fun toys and necessities that we could probably do without if we'd only go back to the old ways. Back to a better time. A time when a German Monarch or a Sterling accordion cost about twenty bucks and with them, "real music" was created, not just copied and resold as new or the next best thing. Or was it? Maybe it was copied and changed to suit modern taste. Just like (some of us)do now a days.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

I also think different builders have vastly different production costs.
Some build in a semi-factory setting, using standard parts and putting out a product by batches of a dozen. Others build a truly custom product with lots of in-shop machined parts which takes so much more time than buying the stuff from the same supplier everyone else uses.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

"Some build in a semi-factory setting, using standard parts and putting out a product by batches of a dozen."


As is common with at least one of the big name Cajun box builders and complete with expedient, cheap, unsightly butt joints suited to limited skill and perfect for a production situation.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Greezy McGill
A time when a German Monarch or a Sterling accordion cost about twenty bucks


You don't mention a year, but if we use these figures:
Year: 1930 (1930s?)
Monarch or Sterling accordion: $ 25

We get:

Number of workdays to buy a 25 $ accordion in 1930 (roughly):

Average of All Industries : $ 1388/year : 365 = $ 3.80/day -> 6.5 days
State and Local Government Workers: $ 1517 : 365 = $ 4.15/day -> 6 days
Public School Teacher: $ 1455 : 365 = $ 3.98/day -> 6.5 days
Building trades : $ 1233 : 365 = $ 3.37/day -> 7.5 days
Medical/Health Services Worker : 933 : 365 = $ 2.55/day -> 10 days

2017: $ 2500 is the lowest price I have found for a new Cajun accordion.
Now everyone can make his own calculation for today.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

According to an online inflation calculator:

"What cost $25 in 1935 would cost $444.45 in 2016"

So one could have a Monarch for the price of an Ariette today :)

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Greed.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

So what is the driving force here and evaluation results? That accordion builders charge too much? All about perspective. I doubt anyone saying they cost too much has ever built one. I know that at what I charge, which is less than 2500, and how long it takes me, I'm making it for not a whole lot above minimum wage. But it's a hobby for me, I couldn't make a living at it without cutting out some big timer suckers that I do that I don't want to give up. If someone wants a handmade accordion for under $1000, I suggest file your opinion where opinions should be filed, and buy the parts and make one. Hell, it's easy, it's just a little box.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Analyzing Rusty's figures, he's got 50 hours in an accordion. A couple of years ago, Ed Poullard told me he had 85 hours in a recent one. One might average those and quickly determine that accordion builders are the lowest paid of skilled craftsmen in the U.S.

Here's my point: If we can't keep these guys tied to the workbench, they're going to move to Seattle where the minimum wage is $15.00.

Keep buying those overpriced LA boxes!

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Referencing Seattle... where the minimum wage went to $15 per hour and the average entry level employee earning minimum wage has had his/her hours cut by as a result. Fact.

As to the price of Accordeons.

There are makers who do their best and more and ,in my opinion, don't charge enough. Then there are those (some "famous")builders who keep making the same old stuff with the same old stamped out parts and skimp on design, materials and workmanship but still command high prices. And that is where I call BS.

Simply because an accordion is made in a particular location or by a revered
maker does not necessarily indicate a high quality nor command a higher price.

Case by Case


I make stuff, entirely by hand. I average about $15 an hour .. between May and August one I work about 80 hrs per week.. the rest of the year about 50-60. I am backed up by a couple years. Could I charge more, yes, will I .. no.

I make enough to do it again tomorrow.. and I could not do it if I did not enjoy it.

If I was still making accordeons,
Would I ever consider butt joints or stamped out parts made by someone else.?
Would I go to the source and get better parts/materials.. you bet..
would I make what I could and source the rest from the best. Yes
Would I put out a product than any decent craftsman could make and charge prices that implied a higher level of quality.. no.

If I were to go at it again.. I'd go for the top.. and sell a very few. Consider Briggs. Otherwise.. why bother.


In another profession as a factory rep for a high line internationally famous Euro car maker... I would often visit a dealership where there was a mechanical problem, usually resulting in a customer problem ( that's where I come in) and in looking at the circumstances.. I would be greeted by a service manager and their top tech/mechanic.. who would be touted as having 25-30 years experience.. nope..
This is a common misconception that 25-30 yrs makes you skilled.. not necessarily.

My estimation was this guy has been there and has 25-30 years on the job,
but... he doesn't have 25-30 years experience .. he has 1 year's experience times 25-30 years.


There are exceptions in the auto world and the accordeon world, but do not suggest I revere, bow down, or otherwise drink the Kool-Aid or eat the jello.

I am in awe of excellence, not fame. .. And I am willing to pay for it.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Agree whole heartedly Brian

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Accordions made in factories should be compared with accordions made in factories, NOT with customized accordions made by artisans. We wouldn't compare the cost of a house drawn by an architect (who will do exactly what you want, hire the workers, choose the building materials and follow the building of your house) with the cost of a prefabricated house.

My conclusion is that today's Hohner Ariettes should be of the same quality as pre-WWII Monarchs or Sterlings. That's where I see "a rip-off". (I unfortunately began my trip with an Ariette ).
(That's what I meant in my second post. Sorry for not being clear enough, Bryan).

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Christian nailed it pretty much.

2500$ for a semi-factory built LA made accordion (no name dropping) is certainly not cheap, but heck, people have to make a living - even cajuns - and if the buyer likes the product, that's totally cool with me.

2500$ for a custom box with unique detailing (custom stamped corners, individually lathed stops etc.) is cheap considering the production time involved.

500$ for a chinese made accordion shaped object where corners are cut on every single part is a ripoff period.

Now I'm still wondering why no one yet has come up with a good copy of the Monarch design for moderate $$$. Gabbanelli is sort of close but they have all stand up reeds... close but no cigar.

(just my 2 cents)

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Jeff Hildreth, could not agree more (we typed simultaneously).

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Gabbanelli doesn't make their "Cajun" accordion.

And a Hohner is closer to boxes of old.. and considerably more class.

The Ariette is a con job..


A "custom made " box ..
Give me a plain Jane box with no fluting.. no stamped corners.. no butts and the highest workmanship possible with Artigiana or other high quality hand made reed. Use one board for the whole box and line up the grain in successive pieces..ie book match left and right on the chassis bits.. .. That is what Castagnari and others do every day. No foo foo (bling) anywhere.

In a previous post I commented on Seattle's minimum wage and hourly reduction..
the average reduction in hours was 9.. this made up the difference for the employer.

Minimum wage can backfire.. beware of getting what you want.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

"Use one board for the whole box and line up the grain in successive pieces..ie book match left and right on the chassis bits"

I've done this on almost all my boxes, and I honestly can only remember 1 person noticing. But I still do it, especially on figured woods if the board allows.

Re: Amplified Accordion Case

Bryan,

And that is why I consider your efforts to be at the top of the list of Cajun builders of the new era of accordeons.

And if I wanted a traditional Cajun accordeon, Jude Moreau.



Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

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