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Re: But joints mitered joints

Tommy - a classic 'but me no buts' response.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Maybe I can help. What if you one day you picked up an accordion that might have been for sale, or it was at someone's home that you visited and you were given the opportunity to play it. When you began to play that accordion, it sang out to you. The vibration coming from it infected you through your ears, fingers, and hands. It's sound and playability were unlike any other accordion you ever had the chance to play on. The mere sound and feel of it inspired a type of playing to come out of you that you had never experienced before. It was truly a unique and obviously well made accordion. The maker, whomever they were, really cared about their end product as it would perform in the hands of the musician. You buy the accordion and take it home and open it up to see the magic inside, and low and behold.....the corners were butt joints. Do you bring it back and say, "I cannot accept this accordion, it has butt joints." LOL.

It was once said that "you do not adjust the accordion to fit you, but you adjust yourself to fit the accordion". How many of us actually know what was meant by that quote? I can tell you if you'll hear me.

One must try to make good music on what is available. If you kept switching accordions to accommodate your illusions of what a good accordion sounds like, you'd soon go broke. But if you were to accept your "Cajun" accordion as being good enough, and you'd adjust your ear and playing style to what it took to produce good Cajun music, you'd find, as time went by, that you are actually adjusting yourself not only to the accordion, but more importantly, TO THE MUSIC! If you still feel that you want another accordion, then you should know when you are ready for one. That your current accordion is beyond help and nothing can be done to it to make it sound like you want it to. As a beginner player, I had the same problem, and it had nothing to do with freakin butt joints! I took the accordion to its maker and explained that something was wrong and the accordion didn't sound right to me. The maker grabbed the accordion and played one song as it was meant to be played, in the old style. To my ear, the sound was right! He made me realize with that one song, that it was not the accordion that had the problem, but it was me and my modern day playing style. Almost a decade and a half later, I finally understood. To make a Cajun accordion sound good no matter if it has butt or miter joints, you have to play the music that was meant to be played on it. To do that, you must adjust your point of view, your button press, speed, tempo.....all of it. You must keep trying to find and make music come out of that accordion that makes you happy. If you are happy with it, others that hear it will be happy along with you. If you can master such a thing, I guarantee you....that neither butt joints nor mitered joints will make the slightest bit of difference.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Argument doesn't work. First thing I look at is if a box has butt joints. If it does, I walk. I hjave no interest and do not care how it's played.
Taking it home and the deciding I don't want it because it has butt joints says I deserve it if I'm that stooped.

Imagine this:
I buy a Flamenco guitar from a shop and when I get home discover it has a laminated top...

I would have known that on the first strum and I'd look at the sound hole edges.... It would never get out of the store..

Imagine a guy offers a 1000cc Road bike for sale. .. I go look at it, it's a Harley. I'm gone. A friggin' Harley. I want an adult bike..I'm gone.

Neener, neener.

So I'm to adapt to a substandard product because it's all about the music.
I do not compromise.

I find a 1938 Martin D -18 advertised for $15K. All original no known work has been done. Went to see it. Owner plays it sounds very good.

I always carry a small tape when looking at a guitar..
I measure the nut width.. it's 1 11/16ths. At this point I have not played the guitar and lose interest immediately, Why.? Then I measure the scale length and distance from the nut to the 12th and from the 12th to the saddle. Now I smell a rat.

Reasons, I will not play anything under 1 /34" nut width and:
the seller is a lying SOB because Martin did not go to the 1 11/16ths nut width until late 1939. So what else is wrong ?
Definitely not a 1938.. but likely from the 70s when Martin's bridge placement jig was so worn they were shortening the string length putting the bridge too close to the fingerboard/nut.
And that is why I did not play it and will not compromise.. I don't care if it sounds good.

NOT WHAT I WANT and nothing else matters.

You want a butt jointed box, buy one, I don;lt care..
But don't try to coinvince me it doesn't matter. It matters to me and that's all that is at issue here.

Why do I rag on butt joints.. because it is an indicator of economic production and laziness. Disrespectful to the box and to any potential buyer In my very valued and educated and experience exhalted opinion.

I do not compromise.

And that is why my Telecaster has an after market Gotoh perfectly intonated 6 saddle bridge with wider (vintage) spacing and the neck has wider (vintage) spacing and Bill Lawrence hand made Keystone pickups and vintage tuners, string tree, professional jack cup etc. I do not compromise.

I don't care if you do, but I don't sit on a fence, so please, don't try to sell me on mediocrity.

So tell me why when the Cajuns decided to copy the German, Saxon accordeons they did not copy the miter joint. Simple, it takes more time and skill.

Re: But joints mitered joints

You miter or you miter not?
2 very convincing arguments here but function over form always wins for me so I'll go with the music and not the joint. Ding ding round 2!

Re: But joints mitered joints

There are many ways to tell if is guitar is from the '30s besides neck width. and Martin went to the narrower neck in 1938. Back atcha. Potato-Potato-Potato.... -L-

Re: But joints mitered joints

My 00-17 was authenticated by Martin as a 1939 and it had a 1 3/4 nut.
Many early n1939 Martins were 1 3/4. Martin confirmed this.

Martin went to the ridiculously narrow 1 11/16ths the same year the idiotic Phillps screw hit the market.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Not being smart with you but what is the right way to play a song? I've heard the same song done by multiple people and no two sound the same.I was under the impression that improvisation was the key to folk music.

Re: But joints mitered joints

If you are asking me, you're asking the wrong guy...

Re: But joints mitered joints

Come on Tommy we all know you're the Bobby Fischer of the accordion. Who else would I be asking?

Re: But joints mitered joints

I dunno, maybe another nut sack that doesn't use his real name.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Maybe *******s prefer anonymity

Re: But joints mitered joints

You are a pretty sad excuse for a man. But you've infested the Cajun accordion boards for years so it isn't anything new...

Re: But joints mitered joints


Re: But joints mitered joints

Hey Jeff, tell all that to the many Cajun fiddle players that built their own fiddles out of cigar boxes and sewing thread. They had a deep desire to play the music more than the desire to have an awesome fiddle made by some world renowned wood worker out of Italy. I did not build my first accordion out of a cardboard box though. But I purchased the first accordion that came available to me. Sold to me by another Cajun whom I knew to be trustworthy. He never said "This is the best accordion there is because it has miter joints!" LOL, he sold it to me because he couldn't bring himself to learn how to play the dam thing. In fact, he didn't tell me a whole lot about the accordion except that he wanted $500 for it, and that was it! No mention of miter joints nor butt joints. Didn't even tell me what key it was in. Didn't matter to me because when I grabbed it and started pulling and pushing, within 30 minutes, the god dam thing was making the music that my grandfather used to make! And I was hooked forever more. Not once did I even give a second thought to the corners of my new accordion at that moment. LOL, we could go on and on here.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Hey JNightshade. Who gave you the impression that "folk" music was about improvisation? Was it Wilson Savoy? I recall hearing him say that on some video once. Is that where you got this notion?

LOL, yes it is all about improvisation......until you learn how to play the songs in the way they were meant to be played. Ahahahaha

I'm not making fun of you nor disrespecting you. Just looking at it from the point of view of a player that's gone over the hill into the realm of the masters. There are several "right" ways to play the same song. Depending on the circumstances, who's listening, and who's playing. But there's only one old way. That's the old way that send chills, draws a tear, or makes the heart skip a beat or two. That's the old way that inspires a youngin to want to buy his first accordion and play this very "un cool" Cajun music on a very un cool instrument that his forefathers played.

Re: But joints mitered joints

Wow, Greezy, that's the first post of yours I ever thought, "this guy knows his stuff." I agree 100 percent. Every song has its words, every tune has the chord and note progression that makes it unique. Sure, you can put a little tinsel on that tree, but it better be 95 percent the song or tune or you are blowing it out your butt.

Jeez, I agree with Greezy. Maybe there will be peace on earth after all. Go figure... -L-

Re: But joints mitered joints

We're good I didn't think any disrespect was intended. It was either Savoy or Big Nick that I read that quote from. Now as far as the old ways is that from trying to copy someone's style or is like Tommy said %95 and put your own tinsel on the tree? I understand there is a standard for songs but how much room is there to play with?

Re: But joints mitered joints

Holy Toledo, even Nightshade and I agree. North Korea is next!

Re: But joints mitered joints

That's the great minds thing you always heard about

Re: But joints mitered joints

The difference between a Classical guitarist and a Flamenco guitarist comes down to the Classical guitarist is stuck in a rut playing the tunes (they are not songs as they are not sung) exactly as they were played/written before him/her. The Flamenco guitarist has a basic rhythm (compass), melody and format, but is free to improvise and "make music" ... not bang it out rote.

Re: But joints mitered joints

I have ZERO problem with Cajun fiddlers and Cajun made fiddles.

But a professional, production, mass produced accordion shop has the skill, the tools and the option of doing a miter. No miter, no sale.

In another life I was a rare and exotic and instrument grade hardwood broker.. self employed.

My main market were violin and bow makers. I know a bit about the instrument. My wife is a violin player. First chair/concert master at one time.
She has a LANINI hand made violin. She has upscale bows. She played well. She no longer plays which is a pity.

Fun, honest instruments can be made out of simple materials with simple tools and the result can give great pleasure to the builder the player and the listener.

No excuse for a butt jointed accordeon when mitered cornered, better quality (IMO) can be had for the same, or less, money.

Buy what you want.

Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

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