Melodeon, you should post that link to the accordion Builders list that you made on the top of the Forum index so that it is ready available for everyone. And program the website so that the list stays on top of the index.

Freight Train Blues was recorded on an A accordion owned by Dewey Balfa. Therefore, it is in the key of E.

I have not yet decided what key accordion I want to have built Melo. It is a daunting task to say the least! Voice analysis keeps verifying that I seem to sing my best in the key of D area, which leads me to believe that I need a G accordion. But that may not necessarily be true depending on which key that I play in on that g accordion. I keep looking into the low key accordions, but they tend to not have much of a high-end when when playing on the bottom High keys. By low key accordions, I mean low d, low f, and low G. I have yet to find out if there are any other low-key accordion builds. That's why I opened this topic. I wonder if there is a low a??

Hey Gee, some very interesting information you gave there! And very specific. How is it that you know that the A accordion being used by Dirk Powell was for Dewey? And what in the hell would Dewey be doing with an A accordion?! I'm wondering if he was able to play along with that A accordion easily on his fiddle when the accordion was played in the fifth in the key of E?

It also tells me that Marc Savoy did not build that Acadian A for dirk. Instead, he built it for a well-known a-lister, and his close friend, Dewey Balfa! Therefore, did the A accordion get special attention because it was built for Dewey?? I have always been suspicious that a-listers get the better accordion builds instead of being handed one of the run of the mill usual accordions that you end up selling??

... and experienced players alike. We may be entering upon Hallowed Ground! This particular discussion topic has the potential to be epic! You may not know, but I have recently stopped taking my medication which inevitably leads to me going into hypervigilant mode., and when Greezy McGill goes into hyper Vigilant mode, the sparks tend to fly and Enlightenment usually follows. You are witnessing the thoughts and deductions of an accordion player on a quest after having played and done my due diligence with the C and D accordions over a period of 35 years. I can play the C & D accordion, or any other key accordion for that matter, in every key possible, or as some of you might know it as "every "position" possible". This scenario has led to my seeking to have built the perfect accordion that will satisfy in the best way possible, my singing voice, the natural key that my ears are attuned to, and last but not least, the ease with which the fiddle can play along with said perfect key accordion. I am also going for a superior feel and resonance in the accordion key that I
choose to have built. I am by no means an A-Lister, but I want to be treated like one when I find the right accordion Builder to help me on my
quest. You would do well to pay close
attention to what is about to happen
here........ I want this accordion to be the one that I do not want to ever sell and the one that everybody wants to buy from me. But alas, would they be getting the right key for them??

In honor of Dewey Balfa's most resonant black A accordion. We'll call it A-11 in honor of Marc Savoy's secrets when he built and tuned the dam thing. And you maybe can play along on your C accordion on the pull, in the 5th in the key of mostly "G". But wouldn't it have been awesome if this song was in the key of A LOL?

Oh, and I almost forgot, who would I be if I didn't recognize Dirk Powell for his Freight Train Blues, Penny over at Martin Accordions, Tina over at Savoy's Music Center, and last but not least.....to Gee....I'm callin you out Gee...I want to pick your brain some more about that A-11. Oh, and for the man who ordered the most accordions to be built more than any person in the whole world (47 and counting), Richard Lebeouf, on your next single, why don't you try this song out...maybe you could transcribe or transfer it over with on your A accordion and sing it in E.??

MELO!! Outstanding job on the accordion builders list! What I wouldn't give to have some of those accordions in the pictures and still have those Builders alive that are no longer with us. You even listed a very obscure Builder Elton Quebedeaux "TECHE". I knew him personally and he could have definitely helped me find my most resonant key. And the man sure could talk! He would have told me every secret he knew. It's just back then, when I knew him, I did not know the questions that needed to be asked. I did learn from him a song that he always played to check the overall "minor" tuning of a customers accordion. As I see it, I am the only one on Earth that knows that tune and is able to play it like he did. It is a pretty cool version of the Hicks Wagon Wheel special. A very unique version. It's played in the 5th on the pull. And, he learned it from my grandfather!!

Greezy,
Thanks, but I had a lot of help from people of Louisiana and also this forum too and internet.
Elton Quibodeaux was mentioned in the first book written by Ann Savoy.
I searched this forum and there's a reply(2018) from you about him and an
accordion in the key of E.
Matbe you need a Low E
He also did some recovery work on old German accordions.
And he was a fine fiddler too, someboy wrote.
Lovely story from long ago.
Hicks Wagon Wheel Special is a special one indeed.
I love the turn with that 3 buttons (67pull/5push)after eachother for a while.
Every note is changing a place in the beat, which sounds so good.
I wish you good luck with your hunt for the best accordion you want.

Ah yes I remember Elton's E accordion. A reddish color I think it was. It had a sweet depth to it, but not that deep in tone. But for some reason, it was resonant! The minute I grabbed it I was able to play Wayne Toups' version of "The Ring That Shines". Maybe because the majority of that song is played in in the neighborhood of B Fellers! I just went back and sang along with the ring that shines and yes, I can sing easily to it. Thanks Melo!

(LOW E Accordion) But Melo, I've still yet to confirm the existence of the Low E Accordion. Maybe someone reading can help with that before I have to start making phone calls to "bother" the accordion makers with all of my intrusive questions.

Here is a video of Wayne Toups' "The Ring That Shines" played on an E accordion in the key of B (on the pull) in the 5th with a chord change to the key of E at the supposed turn of the song. Notice how bright the E accordion is. It is on the higher end of the scale given to us by Vincent Accordions: G, A, B, C, D, "E", F.


And then, there is this video of Kegan Navarre playing an Eb or Eflat Accordion on the push in the primary key of Eb. It's not a Low E, just an Eflat. Be sure to go to the video on youtube and read the comments.....and viola, the questions/answers conversation between Jude Herbert and Craig Vincent. I just learned something from reading them! The supposed "BIGGEST REED SET" is the LOW F reeds.


......and GEE, where in the hell are you?!! You can't just come in here, spit out some juicy information about Dewey Balfa's A accordion and disappear...meeeannnnn.

"I don't know Jude from Adam, but if you're gone to play the jukebox, please don't play A-11"
Ha, I like that song!

Can anyone tell me Richard Lebeouf's phone number so I can ask him if I can go to his house and set down and play on all those accordions he has?!! Wow, he's bound to have all the possible keys all in one place! I wonder if he'd charge a surcharge?....and cook me supper. Rich, if you're out there listening, I'd be willing to pay up to $300 for a two hour session with those accordions. And I would even be willing to wear some soft thin gloves or trim my fingernails and wash my hands before I handle them Martin Accordions.

Why, after all these years, haven't Louisiana accordion makers built all the key accordions, including the Low keys, and put them in an acoustic play room, all on a shelf, all in order from
A-G?

If just one accordion maker did that, lots of players would go there. If the maker built some excellent sounding, high quality accordions, lots of players would buy there! It would be out of control!

Hey Jude, that would be pretty awesome to sit down with every Key accordion in one place. The only problem with going play on Richards accordions is that he is known to have the wettest tuned accordions around. But I'm pretty sure Martin accordion goes out of their way to produce some of their best work for him because he has bought so many. And I have heard that the wet tune accordion tends to vibrate more or it speaks or sings back to its player more. You can feel the songs better and the sound will carry farther away. But there are definitely different degrees of wetness as in the case with women lol.. For instance, Iry Lejeune's C accordion is an exact match to 15 cents wet.. it is tolerably wet, but not too wet and sweet. If I'm not mistaken, wet tune means that one of the medium row of reeds is kept dry and the other row of medium reads is tuned a little sharper so that this wet row of reeds sings with vibrato in tune with the rest of all the reeds. The wet row has a lingering beat to its reeds which adds a little depth to the sound of the accordion overall. I think if you want
resonance like I'm looking for, a certain degree of wet tuning will be preferred to deliver such a resonant sound and feel.

But that brings me to another thought... I have been experimenting with playing my accordion with the low reed Bank by itself and also playing with just a high read Bank all by itself. I love the sound and feel of the low reed Bank, while the high reed Bank seems to barely pass any air or sound through it. I've tried all kinds of different combinations and the high-reed bank consistently seems muted because the reeds are so small I think. I keep wondering what it would be like to have and accordion build with an LMML reed setup instead of the traditional LMMH reed setup. And one set of those low reeds wet tuned! Now I realize that the accordion would be quite Airy with those two big low reed rows, but you talk about it would be resonant! And I wonder if it would make a difference if those two low reed Banks we're laying down flat on the read block far away as is possible from each other or should they be put side by side on the standing pyramid Center
Of the read block?? These are questions that I have for the builders. If I could only get them to speak up got dammit!

Folks, I almost shut down this thread last night. I figured, why try to help, or waste valuable information and my precious time on non- willing participants. But as nature would have it, I have an active mind that thinks deeply about any subject it latches on to when I'm cutting my grass, cleaning my yard, riding my four wheeler, driving while playing the accordion, etc etc. And the thought of Richard LaBeouf's 47 Martin accordions keeps invading my thoughts! Now I'm going to give Richard credit for being responsible for my learning every diatonic accordion playing mode or position. He unknowingly influenced me when I heard him talk, in one single sentence, about playing in the fifth. He said it in passing with no real details about it, but I latched on to it like a pup to its momma dog! You see, before he mentioned playing in the fifth, I knew Richard played in the fifth from hearing his music and watching him play. I just had no idea that the very words," the fifth" belonged to a certain language known by musicians called the Nashville number system. And I figured, if my accordion had "A Fifth", then I wondered if it also had a first second third fourth Sixth and 7th to it also. And the rest
is history. We all know now that the 10 button Cajun diatonic accordion has six different playing modes or positions, or keys to play in. The greeks, way back when, gave these playing modes names! There were seven names created to cover each letter or key in the musical Spectrum. A - G. They even went as far as to describe the feeling you get and the characteristics and even the moods produced when music is played in these different positions! And I'll just give you the example of the Mardi Gras song's melancholyness, and sad Gypsy like feeling when it is played in A minor on a C accordion. It is played in the 6th key in the mode called the Aeolian Mode. Now don't get me wrong, the Greeks didn't play a Cajun accordion. LOL but they philosophied about a lot of things. You can look up these diatonic moods / names on the internet very easily by searching them out by "Greek diatonic mode names". But I digress... getting back to those 47 accordions. I don't care how Richard plays or how wet his accordions are tuned, but I do care about the experience he and Martin accordions gained by experimenting and making those 47 accordions for one person. I am absolutely positive that he had to have developed some preferences along the way for the way his accordions were built and tuned. I'm sure some of his accordions were made better than others and set up better than others. And I'm sure that out of all those 47 accordions, he has a favorite! My goal is to have my favorite accordion made in one shot without having to have 47 of them built. And I do believe Martin accordion is where I will start. They are the other party that gained the experience along with Richard. And I know the story now, and I also know the questions I need to ask when I go to Martin accordions in order to narrow down quickly and accurately, the best possible most resonant accordion build they are capable of. The first key I will have them build is the most logical choice for someone having played on the C and D diatonic accordions for all of his playing years. The B flat of course. After the B flat is built, I will have the entire key note Spectrum covered by my Ionian (The 1st) and Mixolydian (The 5th) playing abilities except for the key of E. And to cover that key of E, I will have an A accordion built just like Dewey's. By having these two keys built, I will also cover the ability to play Zydeco Style. I don't know if you have noticed, but I have noticed a trend of Cajun and Zydeco accordion players having odd key accordions built so that they can stand out from all the rest. And they are going with a deep, resonant sound to do it. This shall be discussed in another Topic at extreme length and detail. LOL

Greezy, I read all your contributions in this subject and it's impressive.
I know things about music theory and keys to play in, but my knowledge is to little to understand everything. I try to play Cajun Music the best I can and I want to play the bass-side in every song I try to play. That makes it a little easier for me because the amount of positions to play in is minimal :-) I admire all those accordion players who don't have those problems to play in all possible positions/keys on the same accordion.
I think your idea with the reeds (LMML) isn't bad at all.
Lots of luck with your attempts to find the accordion with the best deepest most resonant key !

I know you're paying attention Melo...You always do. And thank you for the compliment. You are right....it really boils down to playing the Cajun Accordion in it's two main positions...the 1st and the 5th and any other position where the base seconding can be applied, if and when it can be applied. Such as in the 6th position Mardi Gras Song in A minor on the C accordion, or any other key Cajun accordion for that matter.....for some odd reason, the base seconding applies very well there in that extremely odd and rare key position that the Mardi Gras song is supposed to be played in.(keeping in mind that the Mardi Gras song can magically be played in all 6 positions if done by the righteous and capable Grand Master)

And Melo, you have the knowledge and ability more than most....after all, you're here ain't ya? Actually, you've been right on a quite a few things. You unintentionally influenced me and called, ahead of time, which key accordions i should have made. Very superhuman of you.

If and when the time comes for me to have my last accordion built, after the Bb and the A,
....it will be made in the key of "G". Whether it will be a G, G sharp, or Low G...that is to be determined. But you do see the wisdom in following the order don't you?.....C, D, Bb, A, then G? The wisdom is a "gradual adjustment" for my ear and my voice. That is also the order that Cajun Music is available in from most to least from times gone by to the present. "That's why "C" accordions will remain King for some time to come. There are way more songs available on youtube alone made with "C" accordions even compared to the next step down in music made on "D" accordions.

Told y'all it was going to be epic! And if you were able to read between the lines, it was "Prodigious", "Monumental", possibly even "Transcendent".:sunglasses:

Chris Ardoin & Double Clutchin "Lonely Waltz"

Get a load of this Martin "A" Accordion! Do y'all hear those deep base side seconds being "Double Clutched"? Well, that is being made possible by Martin's built in mic (might be patented) that is installed inside the accordion body next to the primary reed block. It's not near the base side reeds because that would be overwhelmingly too much base, but the mic pics up the base side well!!
....and all I have to do to get this based out Zydeco "A" accordion is to show this recording of this song to Martin Accordions and ask for the tuning preferences of Chris Ardoin who has his accordions built at Martin Accordions. Maybe a little tweaking to the wet tune though. And then, there's still that LMML idea?????

Hey Greeze, I don't think that is an A accordion Chris Ardoin is playing right there. Awesome sounding accordion though! I think that is an F accordion. But it's so low!

Hey Jude, you didn't let me down! LOL and now we all know what a LOW F accordion sounds like. Yes, the song is being played in the key of C on the pull of a LOW F accordion.,. I was still easily able to play along with my fiddle down tuned fcgd. But I can't sing to it worth a ****! So according to the accordion builders, this is the "Deepest Most Resonant Key" with the biggest reeds (or The Reed tongs with the most brass added onto them). It is worthy to note that a regular F accordion is high in sound and tone. Thank you man! You're paying attention.!

Folks, if you're wondering how I do it, I start with knowing the answer already, then I build the story up to the answer. No big mystery really! And now we know more than most....

I posted a link in website #1 up there of a player on Facebook. For the sake of this comment, I hope the link works. I don't trust Facebook. I think his name is Wayne Singleton. He's playing Canray Fontenot's "Bars of the Prison" in the key of Low C (in the 5th) on a Low F accordion. I am trying to come up with a word that describes the sound that the accordion consistently makes. I have heard it referred to as a "growl", a "humm", but I think there is a better word to describe it. I will mull it over for a while and one day come back and put that word in the comment section here. Unfortunately this is one I do not know the answer to as of yet. It needs to be a word that you can tell your accordion maker and they'll know exactly what sound, feel, and resonance you're talking about.

Got dam encrypted Facebook links! The link didn't work! You're making me look bad Facebook! Not a very wise thing to do! Just ask Jerry Moody how that goes.

Bar de la Prison with Wayne Singleton under website Link#2

Hope this link is working well :-)

That sounds really great and it's a very deep sound whichfits this music perfect.

Thanks Melo! Your link works! That is the exact song that I wanted them to hear.

Hey everybody, I just found out At Martin accordions, that there is such a thing as an LMML reed setup. But it was also said that the top most buttons would be very sluggish when trying to activate the LMML reeds up there on buttons1,2,and 3 and that the LMML accordion would be very airy. If an accordion player wanted to install the LMML set up, it would be best to install them on a C, D, E, F accordion because those L reeds at the top buttons would be smaller than the G,A,Bb accordions and easier to activate in those higher key c d e f accordions. Do not even attempt the LMML set up for a low D, low F, or a low G. Just thought you might want to know what I found out and deduced on my own. I am thinking that the Dewey Balfa A accordion that Dirk is playing on is possibly an LMML set up.

So for a recap, here is the BASIC accordion BUILD key Spectrum from the deepest low sounding accordion to the highest pitch screaming shriller accordion.

LOW G, LOW F, LOW D- Dry Tune

LOW G, LOW F, LOW D- Wet Tune

LMML G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F- Dry Tune

LMML G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F- Wet Tune

LMMH G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F- Dry Tune

LMMH G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F- Wet Tune

How hard would it be for all accordion builders to put up a sign like this in their shops showing all the possible keys and tuning types? It would educate their customers, and cut down on a lot of unnecessary customer uncertainty.

And then maybe they can put up a second sign right next to it showing:

All possible accordion keys:
G, G#, A, B, Bb, C, C#, D, Eb,E, F, F#

Tunings:
Straight/Just Cajun Tune w/ Tempered 3rds & 7ths, wet or dry

Equal temperament Tuning

Zydeco Tuning, wet or dry.

Now that wasn't so hard now was it?

I sure hope the link I posted works. It shows Kaleb Leday demonstrating the same exact song in 3 different keys/positions using a B Natural accordion.....using the Nashville Number System that puts him playing the song in the 4th (E), the 5th (F#), and on the 1 (B).

The description on facebook is: Lessons By LeDay #MondayMadness "3 major keys per 1 accordion"
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1A9bNbnHtD/

Listen to the "RESONANCE" of this B natural and how the resonance is most dominant when he plays in the 5th which is in F#. Truly remarkable use of chords! And be sure to read his description of what he's doing. Awesome!