ve been working on a C box down basement way, up here in NY. With limited locals to question and take pointers from Its great to see such good discussion going on here.. Im looking to find some suggestions on my next one row that can fit in with my local friends that play a variety of folk/rock mainly guitar music but some fiddle or even a viola player in their jams. They are good musicians and versatile but also dont mind newbies joining in. Would a D seem right or A ?

--c should be fine for most jams. everyone can
play in c.


--your next box should be based on what *you* want
to play, not fitting in with others.

--when the accordion plays, it is the lead.

--you may want to consider if you will ever sing.
if so, see if most things you want to do can
be sung in c or g [your current box]

--most male voices are too low to sing
most of the common cajun songs, with a d box.

==only get a d if you are sure you can sing
with it, or don;t care about singing

--for playing with others, you may want to consider
a cheap 3 row, though a cheap one won;t be very
loud.

--but at least you get a bunch more keys to play in.


Often times some people leading the tunes arent even sure f the key they ar playing in....makes it hard to figure...Aaand/// the other question would be a key that will not force guitar to need to use a capo or for the fiddle to retune to anything other than "normal"tuning ??

--dude, accordion is the lead.

guitar has every key, let them sweat it out.

you are not buying an instrument for the convenience
of others! not at $1200 anyway.

get a harmonica if they want you to play in
a, e, d, etc.

though usually d accordions are easiest
for fiddle to accompany without retuning, c and
g are not impossible either.

and the keys of a and e [easiest to play in d and
a boxes, respectively] are what *lazy* guitarists
tend to like best.


--wle.

You are probably thinking of the ATM35, a high quality mini condensor instrument mic.

Here is an example.
http://www.spiritone.com/~pmc/atm35.html

This mic comes is several different configurations, so you need to be very careful when you buy it that you get it in the configuration that works for you.

Mainly, it is available with and without the power-pack. If you know that you will always be using phantom power on your mixer, then get the version without the power pack. I believe the "x" version is designed for wireless use.

The main problem with this mic is finding, or making a way to attach it to the accordion.

Some people just hang it off of the bellows strap, and that will work if you are sitting down, or dont move around much. I made a mount to clip mine onto the accordion where the "traditional" Shure mic would mount externally.

This mic has a very "clean" sound. You may actually find the accordion sounding too "bright" and have to turn down the highs a bit.

It's a very nice mic, but it's not cheap. I used to be able to get them for about $120, but you will probably have to look really hard to find one at that price now.

DP

Thanks Larry, I suppose my playing isn't quite ready to step out and "BE the lead" at the moment but I expect I'm heading there. My voice is another story alltogether, I have yet to get the gumption to test it in public. But to take it another step, if most cajun song/singing and playing with a C box is the norm, is what I've seen about a Bb Box correct as far as Zydeco having a a significant collection for the key of F singing/playing in a Bb box ?
+...and so if i gets "frugal" 3 row....Ill need a good mic.. ?
DP, appreciate the info and link, yikes and $200+ for the clipper?..The specific ATM35 has other configs or be sure not to get other letters x, xm xmt ect ??. So 2 rolls of duct-tape and a $80 Sure-57 might sound as good pointing at the flappers?? I plan to plug into a powered board....

Thanks Larry, I suppose my playing isn't quite ready to step out and "BE the lead" at the moment but I expect I'm heading there. My voice is another story alltogether, I have yet to get the gumption to test it in public. But to take it another step, if most cajun song/singing and playing with a C box is the norm, is what I've seen about a Bb Box correct as far as Zydeco having a a significant collection for the key of F singing/playing in a Bb box ?

--yes, it is the most common accordion in
zydeco. but guitarists, if you care, will
hate playing in f.

--i would also say that, alternate keys
are more common in zydeco.

that means, that, you can find maybe
50% of cajun music with a c accordion,
for zydeco and a bflat, the number would
be smaller, say 33%.

+...and so if i gets "frugal" 3 row....Ill need a good mic.. ?

--yes, though you will get tired of
holding it to a mic on a stand. and
putting a mic in a cheap 3 row is
hard, there is not a lot of space.

i have done it, it actually takes 2 mics
to get decent even coverage.

--wle.

So if 50% of Cajun is found in C....what is the other 50%...
And so on for 30% of Bb in Zydeco...key of the other 70% ?

Here's my 2 cents for what it's worth. After the C the D is the box to get. It is especially good jamming with non cajun,zydeco players. Fiddles love D and A and won't have to tune down if they even know what that means. Plus, you can play some good rock 'n roll riffs in A and make everyone happy. And, once they hear the box, who knows, you may be able to get them to play more cajun, especially if you can sing a few tunes for them. Check out ebay for an Audio Technica 35. I got one there that I use for the banjo. Works for the box too but I use the internal mic. If you could work up Willis Prudhommes "Speed Bump" in A you would really get that jam going. It's on Li'l Anne's CD. You can get it on her web. www.lilanneandhotcayenne.com

Wasn't clear if your jams would be oriented towards Cajun and zydeco, or go over into other categories like old time fiddle tunes, Irish music, or campfire hits of the 60's. Also wasn't clear if you have the intention to sing.

When you get into Irish, Cape Breton, Quebec, or Appalchian music, A, D, and G are the predominant keys, with D being the most prominent (this is my impression, not the result of a scientific study).

To extend Larry's thought: most other instruments (including fiddles) can adjust to the key of the accordion. On the other hand, if you're looking to throw a few notes in on a tune others are already playing, you would probably find a D box handy, or a two-row A/D or D/G.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who posts here who has driven themselves nearly mad trying to decide what keys they really need to play the music they think they might be playing in a year...the speculation on the next box is part of the pleasure/pain of accordion playing!

Stevie "Blue" Blais

So thats a confirmation that the AT35 is the model to get, nothing with a "x" "pro" or anything huh ?
Johnny, maybe Ill track down Lilanne and co and catch the tune in person, tx for the shameless plug to buy the CD though....I may do that as well.

Hey Steve thanks for the response....Patrick here... You helped me out at the Caz coffee house a few times.. Boozoo Theme is working, and a few others as well... I wanted to get out to See Rosie and maybe even help set the stage up but I was playing with The Rounders that night, missed you at the roots again too....working the percussion but Ive been working my Honer into Orange Blossom Spec. and on Seminole Wind...

Anyone have a comment on the prev question of...So if 50% of Cajun is found in C....what is the other 50%...
And so on for 30% of Bb in Zydeco...key of the other 70%
Gracias all......

The standard mic for both internal and external use on a Cajun accordion is the Shure R-65. It is much cheaper than the condensor mics, although bulkier. You can get them from Larry Miller and other builders.

It used to be that the R-65 mic was about the only type you would see in use. What I observed during the 90's was that some players began to experiment with the smaller, but much more expensive (and fragile) condensor mics. But after a while, I noticed a return to the R-65. I asked some players about that, and was told in several instances that even though the condensor had a good clean sound, they were finding that the sound was TOO clean.

I had been considering going to a condensor mic during that time, but didn't jump on it because of the expense. In the end, I decided to skip it entirely, and stick with what I already had. Additional factors that went against the condensor mics was the difficulties in how to clip them on securely (many complain that they don't stay in place very well), and also the thin and fragile wires that seem to break easily. It began to seem that condensors were all around losers.

Following all that, I joined a different band that was all Zydeco and little or no Cajun, so that was then end of using the external mic anyway. I have the same R-65 mics internally in most of my accordions now, except for two in which I installed the mic element of a Shure SM-57 which has a hotter signal.

-David

Thanks David.. Ive heard some similar things....and Im currently using a 57 on the outside and there is some blaze to it. Most in the audience here have little regular exposure to the button box. So I guess I get an easy out there in most cases.
Since I fairly sure my eventual playing will be with an electric band, Im starting to figure an internal mic is best if not to just be able to isolate the sound....

The choice between internal and external mics depends on the type of sound you want. Even with the exact same mic, the results are VERY different. If you want to go for a Cajun sound, it is best to have the mic on the outside. This gives a nice clean sound. But for zydeco, it is better to put the mic on the inside. This creates that cool muffled sound that we associate with zydeco greats like Keith Frank(the sound is somewhat like what a blues harp player gets).

On my D accordion, I have the option of switching between internal and external with the flip of a switch. I suppose I could even use both at the same time, but I haven't tried that. Lately, I find that I just leave the external mic at home.

-David