Phil,

On one hand you describe the innards of your old accordion as made of "the cheapeast materials, generally incredibly crude", and yet " the reed blocks are still chamfered!!!!!!.
A big thank you for Wilfrid, for supplying these very helpfull links, and thoroughfully going through them, I can't find any signs of "crude" worksmanship or materials .
FYI, the innards design of a "modern" Cajun accordion, has not "changed" radically, since the inception of the "oldie" witch you are now restoring.
Of course, some of the "materials" has been "beefed" up in size, but basically, the design principle and materials is more or less the same.
One thing that "all" of these oldies have in common is that invariably the frames corners are "mittered", and the worksmanship is top notch , otherwise these accordions would'nt have lasted for this long.
Anyhow, enjoy your restoration, and if you've have the time, perhaps, you could list the type of wood, and materials used in your box.

Many, thanks.

Claude.

You are quite right that the corners of the outer boxes are mitred, but the bellows boxes are butt jointed.

Perhaps crude was a bad word. What I was meaning is the woodwork used inside was practical but not pretty. For example, the wood used for the flappers on the bass side did the job, but nothing was quite square. The reed blocks for the bass side uses wood that doesn't all quite match in height so the contact of the reed isn't perfect. The insides are more workmanlike than craftsman. It's production line work to produce an accordion for a price.

My point was that even though the insides were being put together quite quickly, they were still taking the trouble to chamfer the reedblock. Having been on the boxbuilder forum site recently, the question of chamfering reedblocks was under discussion and being advocated, so I felt it was interesting to note it's use on this budget instrument where so much else was basic.

I have one of those really old German made single row accordions, and it really is cheap and crude. I don't know how representative it is, and I am sure that the old Monarchs and Sterlings were vastly superior to the one I have (I think the brand name is Bruno or something similar). And for sure, all my modern LA made boxes are vastly superior in every respect.

Just as a for instance, all the wood frames are of some cheap softwood, which was painted with a fake grain pattern to resemble a stained and varnished hardwood.

I will open it up again to see if it has mitered corners, but lets say it did. I don't think anyone would be justified is saying that it therefore superior to a non-mitered corner LA accordion on that basis alone.

I think that many of those old boxes were the 1920's equivalent of the Hohner Arriette: cheap, low end beginner boxes.

-David

The holes are slightly weird. The face plate only has 10 large holes in. These are offset and provide air to a chamber underneath that serves both banks of reed.

The holes on the reedblock are equally strange with one row having single 1/2" (12mm) holes and the other row has 2 smaller holes, both about 5/16th (7mm)drilled next to each other and overlapped to create one extended hole.

The one working stop runs in front of the reed block but about 1/2" back from the face plate.

If this doesn't make sense I'll do some photos so you can see it for yourself.

CLAUDE, in the early 1960s there was a drastic change in the reed block configuration compared to the pre ww2 design. in the WRITINGS section of www.savoymusiccenter read PONDERINGS OF A REINCARNATEED NEANDERTHAL by Marc Savoy. You will see that he totally redesigned the reed blocks to fit reeds he ordered from Italy. If you havent already, read the entire article and let me know your opinion.

If you use different size reeds than was used before or different than was available you will need to build reed blocks to fit them. So Mark did not invent a new reed block system just a different size block. Which is ok, you gotta do what you gotta do. But today builders have to do that with different key reeds because some of the low keys have bigger reeds hence requires a larger block. Don't want to take any of his smoke away but he did not invent the whole thing and did not make all the advances that have been made over the years even though he has been making accordions a long time. To get the big picture you need to study the history of the accordion.

Disclaimer: It seems like I have been down this road on another thread. I mean no disrepect to any poster or any builder.

I would have to agree more with Bill E. here. Marc did, as I have understood throughout the last 26 years that I have been playing, he did make some advances in tweaking the design to get the most out of it that could be gotten. But advances and tweaks were done by other builders as well. Larry Miller did some, Randy Falcon did some, others as well...I am not sure that I can agree that we owe it ALL to Marc. As I said before, I respect him, and it is HARD to find someone who does NOT respect his contributions. I just don't think it is a one-man show, however. There were no "blueprints" handed out by Marc, as was discussed in earlier threads. In fact, some builders do different things ON PURPOSE...to be different than the Acadian because there are things about that design that is not to their taste. To each his own right? That is why we have stratocasters, telecasters, les pauls, SGs, etc.

Reed blocks were first made in Louisiana by Sidney Brown...good or bad blocks...but he did it first...the reeds were still German reeds...not the longer Italian reeds. Randy prefers the shorter reeds and claims that they produce quicker response...that the shorter reeds are better...Marc's writings claim that the longer Italian design is better. Who knows? And I almost want to say...who cares? What is "better," anyway? I just know what I--me, myself-- like. I can't tell anyone else about what they should or should not like. But Marc did new reed blocks because he had to...the Italian reeds would not fit in the old blocks. His early accordions by the way, had on the reedblocks--felt or leather and screws and no wax...I don't know of anyone doing it that way anymore...including him.

The one thing I have to concede to Marc is the "buzz" that went on between when he started doing something different within the last 5 or 6 years. And I understand it to be something in the reed blocks. And many are liking what they are discovering...and they are copying what they can (by looking at his boxes on their own, not by blueprints)...but this is a fairly recent advance. I couldn't tell you what it is he is doing, but people claim it produces a super fast and loud response for very little effort.

So BRAVO to him for this latest advance...I am curious to play one of these new Acadians.

Chris,

I have one of these new accordions and compared to my 1968 model or my 1987 model, it blows them away!!

I used to hate to play on the 1968 because it was so much weaker than the 1987 that I would have to adjust the PA. Now I have the reverse problem- I have to adjust the PA up for the 87 when using the same mic.

I don't know what makes the difference, but its major. The lesson is, whatever work you do, always strive for perfection and improvement.

How come is John Gabbanelli.Jr saying that his Cajun King Accordion ligne steems from a 1960's prototype that his father created?, now, now "Cajun Green eyes", relax,relax, I didn't invent anything, that writing is on the Gabb web site.
And the early sixties is when Marc , invented the "Modern " cajun accordion.
But I have always been under the impression that John and Marc were somehow "linked" in that invention,or was John " THERE" first,please someone correct me.

The other thing is that , Marc has never built an accordion in his life, tune them perhaps, building no.
So, perhaps John, with his Italian buiders contacts or alonecollaboratly with Marc build in the early sixties the first Cajun accordion prototype.

Please, do me a favour sign with your own name,as it could mean that your'e trying to hide something
Or if you prefer send me a personnal e-mail with your proper name.
And you don't have to capitalize my name as it gives it an exagerated importance that it really, does not need .

Claude.

Back in the 60's John Gab. and Mark were working a deal out because it seems Mark was trying to get the cajun type accordion made in Italy. Well John had a bunch of that stuff made, cheap wood and masonite end plates. A lot like Sidney Brown was making. Well for some reason the deal fell through. Some say Mark just got someone around Eunice to copy the sample he got but used better wood all around and told John Gab. to buzz off. So today they ain't to friendly with each other. Back in the early 80's someone I know got a sample and was offered a whole bunch that stuff John still had around but, it the stuff was just too cheap. So guys listen up. Claude knows what he is talking about.

the information is there in black and white in Marc's writings section. have you read them all? like it or not, Marc Savoy is the father of the modern day Cajun accordion. Like he says on his website, his ACADIAN accordion sound has been imitated, but not duplicated. the man started playing at age twelve. he is a master builder and master accordionist.

Man, are you on the Savoy Music Center payroll or something. I think Mr. Savoy is comfortable enough with himself and his own accomplishments that he doesn't need you to toot his horn in every thread. Besides, if anybody is the father of Louisiana made accordions it's Sidney Brown, he was making them before Marc.

I found on a Dutch website a museum for accordions.
You will find it on the second link.

Au shucks dam! Go to link # 2. It looks like Mark came a little late in the accordion business. Look at all those accordions he did not invent. Oh well he is old enough anyway
Guys if you all could check out some accordions made in Quebec you would see where Mark got the idea. When the builders there began building accordions they played around a lot with the reed blocks and discovered what Mark is doing now. So he got it from them. At the time he was selling a lot of accordions in Quebec but when they started building there it was with a burst and they pretty well shut him out. They wanted a fast response and a loud accordion and that is what they got. So Mark copied the reed blocks and Voila. Now all this is not rocket science, just make measurments and copy what you see especially if you can get hold of an accordion made in Quebec.

When I mentioned reedblocks back at the start I only intended it as an interesting technical digression for those of us sad enough to be interested in the workings. I hadn't intended to rekindle the Marc Savoy debate.

I would, however, just add one thought on the Gabbanelli point. And, I emphasise, this is just a thought, if Marc didn't speak Italian at the time, without Gabbanelli it seems highly unlikely he would he even got hold of bellows and reeds.

With my experience of trying to get reeds and bellows out of Italy 40 years later and with the internet, it's a total pain, even when they have English on their website. Only Binci respond to emails, and I would guess that is due to all the buying that builders have done in the last 40 years.

I guess I am new to this site but I don't understand all the Marc bashing or even the Marc "debate". I have met Marc and find him to be an interesting individual and a talented musician.

Why is this such an issue? Th man makes a very good product. If you prefer a different style or accordion maker - get a different one. Why the attacks? It just seems a little spiteful

Megan

I just realise what I said above might be construed the wrong way. My first accordion was an Acadian, and Marc was always very pleasant when I spoke with him. I have no axe to grind whatsoever.

I was just musing, having read some of the other comments and based on my experience, whether the fact that the reeds and bellows coming from Italy required an Italian connection as intermediary initially, such as Gabbanelli.

Well happens is, he tries to take credit for things he should not. Puts out a lot of misinformation about himself. People don't like that. You see, he did not invent the cajun culture. Now I will have to say this much. He and his family are experts at sucking up grants.

Don't you think we are getting off track here? Your comments are beginning to focus on this family's personal business...aren't we here to discuss accordions and playing the accordion. Let's try to stay on track and keep it dignified.

This board has become a forum for mental illness.

I don't like this reply.
We are writing about accordions and playing on it.
Mark Savoy and his family are great musicians and they build very good accordions.
We need to thank them for all the things they done for Cajun Music.
I hope to see and hear them live once.
Lets go back to the case and leave the personal aspects.

Pretty neat wood grain or veneer, to get back on accordions.

Wilson and his gang the Pine Leaf Boys will be at Festivals Acadiens on October 14th, (sat.) lots of great bands this year including Balfa Toujours, and Bonsoir catin The food is out of this world, just gets better every year. No Larry Miller this year though.