Before I begin this post, I want to say I'm not trying to start any debates about accordiong builders. If I mention brands, it's only because it applies to the subject.

I have a Martin accordion I bought used a while back.

I sent it back to have Salpa reeds replace the Binci reeds, simply because I already have a couple boxes with Bincis.

I just discovered after opening the box that the reed set up is MLMH (Mid, Low, Mid, High)... Is this common for Martin accordions?

The second thing that is strange is that the Mid reeds are longer than the Low reeds. I've opened lots of accordions and have never seen this before. Is this usual for Salpas?

Also, the accordion has an unusually mellow sound. Anyone know how to shave reeds to sound brighter rather than the average mellow sound? I have heard from a couple builders that it's all in how you tune the reeds (without an electric tuner)

Does it have to do with the blue coating on the back of the reed? Or, does it have to do with how much metal is shaved off the reeds?

The sound I'm going for is like certain builders.... Dick Richard, Marc Savoy, Randy Falcon.... I think that Larry Miller comes close too.

Martins are great accordions, in fact it has the best action of any box I've ever played and is a cosmetically beautiful accordion. It's also the loudest accordion I've ever played. The sound, however, is kinda muffled or mellow, I don't know how else to describe it.

Anyway, not trying to start a debate, just looking for people who have an idea of what I'm getting at

You should give Marc Savoy a call. I am sure he can answer your questions easily about the reed setup since he has been building since 1960. I don't own a Martin, but I do own a Pointe Noir(thank you Larry English), a Bon Tee Cajun, and an ACADIAN. Martin, Larry Miller, the late Dick Richard, and Marc Savoy have all shared building knowledge with each other.

Jim,

My opinions--
I would call Jr. himself. He should be able to answer all of your questions...if not, then call one of the other builders mentioned for a second opinion.

Salpa, in my experience, have usually sounded "brighter" and less mellow than Binci...but there are always exceptions.

MLMH--personally never have seen that in a LA made accordion.

Why mid reeds longer?---never seen such a thing and seems physically unlikely...the longer reeds are the lower reeds, not vice-versa.

"Shaving reeds"--no such thing that I have ever heard of...if you take metal off the tip of the reed it makes it sharper or higher in tuning pitch, taking metal off the reed closer to the fastened end makes it lower in tuning pitch...taking metal off doesn't change the basic tone color of the reed, however.

As I have mentioned in other posts, I have played different accordions with the same brand reeds by the same maker and noted differences. I have found you can't just assume what accordion is going to sound like just because of the reed brand and maker--the proof is really in playing each individual instrument. Usually, it seems to me, Jr.'s are pretty consistent. He should be able to straighten it out or answer your questions.

I guess what I am trying to say is that every accordion is going to sound a little different. I have tried switching reeds in an accordion before and sometimes I have been really surprised in the difference...other times and didn't make the difference I was looking for. You never know until you try it, however.

I have owned 5 Martins ( and still have 3 ) several Acandians ( and own one ).. and a Larry Miller as well as other brands.

No two were alike. Martins always were loudest, and were recognizable. They "honked" more.

Acadians had a more delicate sound and feel ( sounding more Cajun I suppose ).. Martins were OK for Cajun, Zydecajun and Zydeco.. in terms of tuning.

My Falcon is Salpa handmades with the Old Timey tuning that Randy puts on them.. it sounds unison tuned and very dry..and much less bright than others.

This is all "qualitative" observation with no reference to strobe tunings or cents etc.

I am interested to know whether anyone can tell what brand box is being played just by ear ? or , if one brand fits a genre better than another, in terms of tuning.

Just curious.

G.

You can "cut" reeds. I have a b-flat that has #2 Salpa C reeds. It has such a bright ring it sounds like a C. I've had several people want to buy it because of the sound it has. It sounds just like Walter Mouton's and Jackie Callier's.

Rusty, can you explain what "cutting" reeds means?
You cannot make them just shorter (like you can with the reeds of a bagpipe for example)since you would lose air and make them slow???

Gus

What I know about Randy's theory is that he thinks shorter reeds respond faster and have a brighter timbre.

He explained to me about how he has done some Bb accordions so that they aren't "lazy" or "dull." Instead of using a set of Bb reeds, be basically uses a set of C reeds (which naturally would be shorter than a set of Bb reeds) and retunes them to match the C pattern. In order to do this he has to mount the reeds in different position.

For example, you can't just mount a number 5 in C (which would be G on push and A on the Pull) on number 5 on the Bb. You have to use the reeds you would normally use on the 4 of a C (which would be E on push and F on the pull) on the number 5 button of the Bb accordion. Then you must retune the reed so that the number 5 button plays F on the push and G on the pull--this is the proper pitch for the #5 button on a Bb.

In order to make these last tuning adjustments, (which require raising the pitch of the reed or making it "sharper in pitch) he may be "clipping a bit of the reed tip (this part is a guess, by the way)...otherwise you would have to file a lot off the tip end to bring the pitch up. This might be what he means by "cutting the reeds."

I am not positive about the cutting...but I know that is what he calls this practice of making a Bb accordion from a set of C reeds.

Anyway, the claim is that this Bb accordion with a set of reeds with shorter reed tongues made from a C is supposed to have more of the bright timbre of the C even though it is pitched a whole step lower than a C...in effect...it is a Bb accordion with the tone color of a C.

Chris is correct, in a since, you just bring down all of the reeds one row, then put a regular set of Bb's at the number 10 row. In my new quest to build accordions my plan is to make all of the Bb's this way. Takes a bit more time to do but it is still very loud and powerful, as Chris says the "timbre" is like that of a C. Thanks Chris, new word for the day !

completely clear, Rusty and Chris.

Funny thing is that I think that the C reeds of a Castagnari one row (Antonelli a mano reeds) I posessed were shorter than the Binci's. (so simular story as your Bb) But I have to measure.
Which is sure that the antonelli's had a direct (fast, loud) tone, but with a short time duration/ no echo when stopped; dry sound. But this is non scientific subjective...
Somebody called it an 'old sound' referring to the older instruments (John Delafosse maybe; while they had big reeds, I heard).
One thing was extraordinary. I never had to retune them for more that 8 years. Reeds looked very sturdy too. (they are now in an Eric Martin cajun accordion, and this proves that the construction also makes a cajun sound, the castagnari wasn't really cajun, the martin 100%)
Gus

To anyone else with Martin boxes.... is yours set up MLMH too?

I wonder if he had to set it up like this because I had its switched from Binci to Salpa.

It is really bizarre but the first set of mid reeds are definately longer than the lows.

What is done about button number one?

You would put a regular set of Bb reeds on the number one row. Since this row is such a low and "bassy" tone, a difference in sound can barely be heard.

If anyone says they can tell you the brand of an accordion by just listening to it and not seeing it. They are dealing in falshoods.

I do know that hand made accordions are never 100% alike. I do know that certain builders have certain ways of tuning the reeds. I'm not talking about wet/dry.

People may say that Salpas sound brighter than Bincis. I think it all depends on how the maker tunes the reeds. I've got 2 accordions with Bincis of the same brand.

They sound way brighter than a different brand that has Salpas. In fact one of the reasons I wanted to have the Bincis out of this accordion is because I didn't recognize the sound I'm used to.

The brands of accordions I mentioned, I have played extensively enough to know what they sound like. I couldn't name them by means of a recording, but I know the style of tuning.

From listening to thousands of hours of playing my different brand Cajun accordions, this is not true at all.

I don't even know if brighter is the right word... Maybe crystal clear, maybe even thinner in someone elses opinion.

Maybe thinner is the word. I don't know enough about tuning reeds to presume, but my favorite builder has written about tuning reeds, but never ever specified how he does it "by ear" to me.

Perhaps the reeds in my favoritve accordions have been scraped "thin" enough to sound brighter?

I don't know how it's done, but I know I've heard Bincis sound different in different brands. In fact, VERY different.