I wanted some advice, did you learn from tapes/dvds or did you learn from trying to improvise with the music? Did you learn all the notes push/pull by the book, or as in the banjo world, did you just noodle around with it till it came together? I'm trying to find direction here. I got a good ear for music, tones, chords, etc. I have played basically most everything by ear. Is this the way you Cajun Box players did it?

i think that is the way you learn to play a basic tune - by ear

you may start with a video or something, that
teaches by sight, but pretty soon you have
to start getting it by ear

later, someone can come along and teach tricks
octaves
chords
bass buttons
trick licks, easy twiddles that sound impressive

wle.

Put your accordion away.

Pick your 2 favorite CDs. Put them on your iPod or other personal music device, including copies of them in your vehicle and home stereo. This sets the stage for your learning curve. No matter where you are, you should seize the opportunity to listen to these discs over and over and over and over. Do exactly that -- listen to them over and over and over, no matter where you are or what you are doing -- until you hear these tunes in your sleep and you're humming them in the shower. This will take a month or so. Be relentless. Bombard your ears with these tunes until your ears fall off.

Every Wednesday night for a month, burn a green candle anointed with Mambo Zuzu's Success Oil #9 for 30 minutes.

After 30 calendar days of this, pick up your accordion. You'll find learning songs easier and much quicker.

Dr. R!CK

Oh come on Rick LOL Green candle?!!!!!! I have immersed myself in this music lately, just as I did with bluegrass years ago. My playing is getting better, I just still looking for direction that benefits me, instead of all the wrong turns I took with the banjo, etc. Bruce

Okay, the candle magic was a wee bit-o-humor! But when you're starting out, a little hoodoo might make one have some faith [insert your favorite psalm here alternatively]!

I had an old tree branch I pulled out of Lake Fausse Pointe and draped it with Spanish moss, which I hung in my sunroom over a sofa. It was inspiring to me to learn my first licks on.

After that, I advanced to the bathroom because the acoustics were excellent -- and I could shut the door, so I wouldn't drive my wife batty with my repetitive and primitive skills.

Did I mention creating a circle on the floor out of cornmeal to play in?

R!CK

bruce
i am in atlanta/chamblee
i could try teaching you

but

i had one other student but he
either graduated or failed, depending on who you
ask. :)

also, i sort of think you have to teach yourself anyway

wle.

Larry-
Was that the young man from Checislovokia or something? He may have graduated/failed, but that deal sure was helpful to me in regards of an introduction to Danny Dyson and my Le Capitaine accordion. I sure am glad that you shared that part on here, (about 4 years ago, huh?) it sure helped me.
As far as learning, I would reccomend D: All of the above.
1. I get the most learning from playing by ear.
2. I have viewed some of the DVD's available and learned good info from them.
3. I saved myself months/years of fooling around by visits to acomplished players to get in person tips on playing. I generaly found that one good lesson gives me enough to go home and work on for about a year.
4. The most important part is to LOVE PLAYING, or has Jude calls it, having the "want to". As long as this is the case, a person is gonna play and play & has gotta learn something in the process. That's my 2 cents and I'm sticking with it. --Tommee

yes that was the guy from czech republic

he can more or less play tunes, though he could do
that before, anyway

but he never wants to sit down and learn
something completely perfectly

and he likes to make up tunes, or play
czech songs that i don;t know

a "lesson" with him was more like him
trying to convince *me* that he can really play. :)

he still has his le capitaine but it is kind
of beat up now, he is kind of casual about taking
care of it

some of the green color has started to fade on it too

wle.

Yikes! I swear I have looked at a map of the world since 1990, but was just reverted to my old grade school geography this morning. Apologies to anyone from the Czech Republic.

Sorry to hear that the Green Le Capitaine in banged up. I remember Danny showing me a picture of it one time. My blue D is showing it's been played lots, but it is treasured and taken care of.

Maybe the second link will help you.
I use it nowadays to find out how the great players do it.
And with a program that slow down the music, without changing the pitch it's an easy job.
To hear everything and to play like the good ones isn't easy at all.
There are now very good DVD's with instructions.

Whatever stage I'm at with this stuff (questionable, at best), I've gotten there through multiple experiences:
> dancing, which gives you a strong sense of where the accents ought to be
> listening a lot (mentioned by others and something you already do). Cajun accordion playing has a lot of embellishment, but the heart of most tunes is the simple melody you might hum to yourself as you're driving along. Getting that tune stuck in your head is maybe the best way to separate the essence from the flourishes
> Dirk Powell's videos and a class (over my head at the time) with Dirk at Augusta Heritage...very useful just to see what kind of hand motions go into making the sound
> Any time you can spend with somebody skilled in the art: it's not the kind of stuff that you can just watch and catch right off, but there's more going on that what you can hear on a CD, and watching it all come together on the accordion will give you some important clues.
> slow-down software: I use slow-down software to pick out those characteristic little riffs: eventually you'll be able to just feel your way into them
> always, always, always let the joy you want to come out of the accordion guide your fingers! Ray Abshire pointed to his heart and said "a song should start from here", then pointed to his feet and said "then go to there", pointed to the bass buttons and said "then here", and pointed to the treble buttons and said "then finally here".

Larry how much do you charge for lessons? Where do you teach from? And exactly what do you teach? I'm interested to find out some more info. Bruce

My advice: learn ONE whole song..not parts.. play it forever...then learn another WHOLE SONG...play that one forever... only learn complete songs...only finish songs you start...each one gets easier. The "want to" factor is 80%...innate talent or lack of is another percentage..and the imposed rule of " I play songs" not licks, starts, endings, middle, imitations, of songs, is a very key element in rienforcing what you have learned onto further songs. Next step, play with accompaniment whenever possible: fake piped in Casio guitar, or along with the record...timing comes from playing with others.

just my input..G.

If you already have a good ear, then that is the way to go.

Besides, very little of this music is written down, and when it is, it is either so over simplified to be of little use, or is just wrong entirely. Plus, even if it was written perfectly, all you have is one persons idea of the song. So much of the tradition relies on improvisation, that each player has a different take on the same tune, and even an individual player is likely to play very differently from one performance to the next.

-David

yep

you might learn a few songs from a tape or
written music

but that runs out pretty fast

pretty soon you are forced to pick up things by ear
or you will never learn anything new

and you also have to solve the key problem somehow
[you have a box in c but the record is in some
other key]

and maybe the speed problem
[guy on the record plays too fast to figure out]


wle.

I think that's quite a valid point about 'one person's idea of a song'. The instructional tapes and DVDs have a lot of value, but it's easy to somehow carve a version in stone especially if there's not a lot of opportunity to get out and play the style with others. I like the idea of trying to learn as many versions of a song as possible. It opens up the concept of improv, same song/different approaches. That's one of the reasons Wilson' Savoy's new DVD is so refreshing. It makes you think about approach, not just push 6 pull 7.
Steve

I say, as a must, if you want the basic Cajun techniques as a solid foundation, you must acquire the Dirk Powell's videos (volume I & II). Just go on EBay, type it and you'll see a few for sale there. They're usually around $45 for both. That is money WELL spent. Once you master the basics, have some fun with CDs. If you want more instructional videos, Steve Riley released an excellent video this year for intermediate/advanced players. I have that one too, and it is very welll done. Wilson Savoy also just released a DVD for intermediate/advanced. I have ordered it, haven't received it yet, but the feedback received on this site has been very positive.
There you have it. The ball is in your court my friend!
Maz

Bruce...if you dont mind VHS tapes i have the Dirk Powell videos #1 & #2 i'll sell ya for $10 plus actual shipping...they came with my martin but i had already bought the Dirk DVD's.

Bruce here is a sample video clip of the Dirk Powell tapes....

http://homespun.powerusermedia.com/Homespun_Tapes/Accordion_Cajun_Powell2.wmv

Chad, are you the same who moderates CajunMusicForum? I haven't been able to find the forum for some days again. Something else going on? Thanks, Sue

Great thread. Here's my 2 cents. Dirk Powell's tapes are first. Learn to play the scale in octaves right away and practice that ad nauseum. Then, when you pick out melodies, you will automatically go for the octave. Remember, that like the banjo, the accordion is primarily a rhythm instrument. Yes, that's true. You want to make people dance to your music. It's all in the right hand just like the banjo. That being said, always play the bass buttons right from the start. Later on you can be more selective in omitting some bass when in different keys. Learn your chords as soon as possible so you can chop rhythm (again just like doing backup on the banjo) to CD's so you get the feel of the music and the rhythm. When learning songs learn the chord structure first. This way you can play along and figure out the lead as you get more familiar with the instrument. Like the banjo, there are standard licks that reappear in the songs. You need to learn them and incorporate them in your playing to sound cajun. Just like the Foggy Mountain Banjo lick, forward roll, forward backward roll and square roll that are the basics for bluegrass, you need to learn triplets, etc. from Wilson Savoy's new DVD. Learn these and then practice including them in the songs. Finally, get a drum machine that you can program. Once you have some songs down, practice with that machine. That will force you to learn how to play with others and give you good rhythm. You have to learn how to keep the rhythm and the song going even if you make a mistake. Then you will have the tools to improvise so you make the songs your own.
Try and find a jam as soon as possible. If that is impossible, try to see live musicians if they tour or play in your area. Oh, and you must support the music by buying CD's so you can listen listen listen so the songs are inside of you. Then it will be easy to play the melodies. One final thought, you must practice singing along as soon as possible. It doesn't matter whether you think you can sing or not. If you play, you can sing. Singing in French sounds daunting at first but as you listen to the music you will hear the same words over and over, just like the licks. Get Anne Savoy's book "Cajun Music A reflection of a People(?)" as well as the big yellow book, "OH Ye Yaille Cher" and you will be all set. Next, get miced up and practice through an amp so you get used to making a big sound. Find a guitar, bass, drums and fiddle and put them together. Then start to play out, record it and send the pictures to Joanie so she can post them on top of the board. Then, when we see you on down the road, you can show us some licks and maybe let us sit in for a song or two. Squeeze on Bro.

There's much to do about banjo's on this forum.
When I'm learn to play the banjo, I have to learn a lot standard licks that will fit in a G,C,D.....
Now I'm playing accordeon too and I wonder if there are also standard licks for the accordeon that will fit in a C,G,D,A,F,E...
If you can play like that you can play everything, just get the right lick...,
Are there a lot accordeonplayers that play the banjo too?
I know that Bruce Daigrepoint and also Dirk Powell play or played banjo .

thanks, sounds like you know whatitis! maybe we can watch you play sometime love dennis&lindia

Hey Johnny you should come over to banjohangout.org sometime. My page is http://www.banjohangout.org/myhangout/home.asp?id=7077
Thanks for the great advice, some of this I am already doing. Bruce

This is probably the only in you may have to learn.

Play triplets without any song, just to get to know them.

Octaves, bouncing, over and over and over. Triplets and the supernatural squeezing effect! If you don't do this enough, you will never prevail

I'd say get these things down first and then make those in between single notes flourish!

Bruce,

Although I hate playing from paper, I sometimes need to do it. (especially if there is no one around to tell me, which is 99% of the time)
it sometimes depends what is better. Listening and singing/humming is very good of course, but it is difficult sometimes to find the right tone on your 'keyboard'. And if no one is around to help you or play it slow, to tell exactly wich button to pull/push, paper can be very, very useful indeed. But sticking to notes keeps you away from listening to the real sound an the rythm (and in fact cajun is more rythm than melody, maybe....).
SHORT DESCRIPTION OF THREE METHODS
EXAMPLE: I learned Grande nuit special mostly from paper after having heard it from a very bad tape. (Eric Martins book and tape) because I liked the "bridge". So I was motivated to learn it. I did it note for note. Paper, finding notes. one bar, two bars, stop. Listen, reading while listening, etcetera. Speed up to get the feel (only two bars), check, again . Tried to play two bars correct without mistakes, start again etc. After one evening (it was realy exhausting) I could remember one part of the tune and could "see" the notes before me when driving to my work and rehearsing in my head. During break I closed my eyes and visualised the tune. I hummed in the elevator, on the toilet etc.
Takes me four days! But now I can play it reasonably well.
METHOD 2: But I also play along with a CD just to get the feeling. And it is good to listen to other tunes, of course. Sometimes I stop and try to remember.
I find out that some 'riffs' can be found in many tunes. So I spend some time to figure it out. (not suitable for learning a specific tune, but good for the feel..)

METHOD 3 learning a specific song only by ear:
listen day in day out. In the car, specially. In between, try to find out where the notes can be found. Try to play a specific part (only one or two bars) out of your head. At a regular base: work realy hard to recall and play a short piece. If not good!!!! Do it again until gou get fed up with it. Then promise yourself to stop immediately after you played it without mistakes.
Don't play at times you don't have the energy for it.
Sometimes it is better to play 10 minutes realy concentrated and be sure it gets in your fingers, ears and brains (than one whole week making noise; your family will enjoy it too) Imagine yourself being on stage.

Sometimes I like to see if whI can remember what I learnt. So I start playing some 'riffs'and put everything which comes across my mind/ fingers together. So I find out what happens if I do 'this'or 'that'.
MAny times I find pieces of tunes (see method 2). So I learnt a tune in five minutes, once. Because I already 'knew' the parts. But it's these tunes I am negible to mix up or forget easily, since the parts are soooo common. (maybe more than 50% of the tunes have 90% the same components?)

Gus (who would like to try the same method on the banjo too. what a lovely instrument. But don't have one)

I learned button accordion by ear, listening to the same songs hundreds of times. It also solved some mysteries to watch other players on stage, and today, the videos from Dirk Powell, Steve Riley, Corey Ledet, and Wilson Savoy are great for the visual cues. Camps like the Augusta Heritage Center are incredible immersion experiences. And I'd say add recording yourself. The biggest leaps forward I've made followed from listening back to my playing. It's the acoustic mirror, and it doesn't lie. You instantly find out what works and what to throw away. It may take a toll on your pride, but incorporating simple low-tech recording, even just using your cell phone voice recorder, will send you ahead.

i'll tell y'all russ plays a killer Cajun accordion!!!!
and of course, zydeco.....but his Cajun chops are substantial!!
roger

as good as you play the fiddle?

Gus

Roger, It was big fun playing tunes with you at Pat & Will's Halloween brunch. I hope we have more opportunities.

Well my daughter and I last Thursday afternoon made up a waltz tune which I play some pickup notes and then play the major parts in octaves. We made an A part and then a B part to it. We got hired because we were a bluegrass band for a wedding gig Friday night and played a small concert for all the guest. Not only did we make some good money, but they had two fully cooked whole hogs with apples stuffed in their mouth. So that night we had rehearsed our little waltz tune and we played it with the accordion, fiddle, bass and guitar. It went really well. So today we played a church and after we got there and got the sound setup we goofed off till service started. I took both of my boxes in the church and we just noodled around with the tune some more. We did our set at the church homecoming and was about to sit down, when the pastor stood up and said "It has been requested that you play that squeezebox". So I got back up explained how we was experimenting with Cajun style music and we had wrote this little piece just a couple of days before. So we played it the same way as Friday except even smoother and it really sounded good. Someone there even gave it a name. So I think the fire is lit for the most part and the accordion is here to stay as part of the show. When we was about the leave with the bus, some lady came up and I heard her asking where I was? I walked to the bus door and the lady said, "I loved all your music today, but the accordion was my favorite", That made me feel good. Man if only the banjo would have been that easy LOL. Thanks folks for all your imput and I think I'm hooked and the rest of the family heard how beautiful the music is this little instrument can make. Bruce Weeks

Great, Bruce!

in my humble opinion the cajun accordion and the banjo are both rythm instruments and the melody is just the "vehicle"

Gus

hey
that;s a good point

i;ve always said sort of the same thing

"every instrument in a zydeco band is percussion
the accordion is just 10 little drums"

wle.

Larry I think I'm getting somewhere now. I listen to one Marc Savoy's recordings of Home Sweet Home and since I play it trick style on the banjo, I decided to give it a shot trying to play it in octaves on the box. After 3 days I can make this thing rock!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I'm working on Faded Love also. Did you play golf a few days ago with Jr Martin? I talked to him yesterday about a better box. He said he was just in Atlanta a few days ago, but he was calling your last name something different if it was you. Bruce