rick

that sounds nice

for me, though, the problem is that, if you
also want to use the box's other sound effects
[like chorus or flanger for instance],
you have to have multiple versions of each
sound effect - one for each accordion you use..

if you don;t do that, the gain and eq settings
for each accordion, which you set differently
to compensate, won;t be right any more

i have a boss se-50 that kind of does all that too
sound effects, eq, etc

but i don;t use it for volume corrections, i do
that on the accordions

the magicstomp doesn;t seem to come with XLR
output - the se-50 doesn;t either-which is annoying,
forces you use a direct box to
connect to a PA.

there is also a current version of the se-50,
the roland VF-1

costs more than magicstomp though


wle.

Grreat thread....

Some thoughts:
Russ..how do you switch channels as you play different accordions and/or go external for a "cajun" sound? I usually play straight internal( and have issues with different volumes) and have thought about a small mixer. I also play some fiddle too. Single and Triple note accordions. So I'm switching up all the time. So.....do you reach down and pull up a slider for the instrument you're on that's preset? Maybe put a marker where you want the level? I wondered about a multi channel stomp box with one line in and multi lines out to the different channels that are preset with volume and eq. That might be cool. Then you could have one wireless plug to just pull and plug into the next intrument.

Larry... I don't mind the issue of a DI. I tried separate DI's(fiddle and accordion) with Boss GE-7 multi band eq's, but went back to two Bagg's Para-accoustic DI/ equalizers. They are tough and run on phantom power. It simplified by setup. Now I just have a Fender Foot pedal tuner for the fiddle.

Rick Reid. Larry, etc...how the hell does Keith/and or other players get the sweet tones? I asked him and he was smug about sharing with me. His ratings dropped with me considerably as a person(what does he have to fear but fear itself? )Obviously some Eq'ing. It seems like a bit of increase on the low end and upper, with the mids flatter. Must be some compression too. I wonder what he has in his rack? Any thoughts?

Another thought on internal mikes as relates to playing. I use less of the bass side(not as steady on the chord/bass buttons) as it gets in the way of some chord structures and passages. But overall, I love using the bass side in general. It's fat. I tend to use the chord button a bit more as it cuts better.

I'll check out the ATM35 for exteral. We're recording a new CD and I used a Rode NT2 condenser for some tunes like Ossun two step and with fiddle. But mostly with the internal mike on the zydeco. I wanted to vary to textures on our CD with old school zydeco, and a creole/cajun sound too.

See ya,
kirk

Some thoughts:
Russ..how do you switch channels as you play different accordions and/or go external for a "cajun" sound? I usually play straight internal( and have issues with different volumes) and have thought about a small mixer. I also play some fiddle too. Single and Triple note accordions. So I'm switching up all the time. So.....do you reach down and pull up a slider for the instrument you're on that's preset? Maybe put a marker where you want the level? I wondered about a multi channel stomp box with one line in and multi lines out to the different channels that are preset with volume and eq. That might be cool. Then you could have one wireless plug to just pull and plug into the next intrument.


==the magicstomp has footswitches to change its
programs/sounds


Larry... I don't mind the issue of a DI. I tried separate DI's(fiddle and accordion) with Boss GE-7 multi band eq's, but went back to two Bagg's Para-accoustic DI/ equalizers. They are tough and run on phantom power. It simplified by setup. Now I just have a Fender Foot pedal tuner for the fiddle.

==baggs
that is what i have
they are not tough
mine has [after 6 years]
broken master volume
broken phase invert switch
very noisy power switch [plugging cable in turns
it on - if this gets noisy prepare
for some very big noises from the PA]
the case is tough
but the knobs and switches are delicate


Rick Reid. Larry, etc...how the hell does Keith/and or other players get the sweet tones? I asked him and he was smug about sharing with me. His ratings dropped with me considerably as a person(what does he have to fear but fear itself? )Obviously some Eq'ing. It seems like a bit of increase on the low end and upper, with the mids flatter. Must be some compression too. I wonder what he has in his rack? Any thoughts?

--dunno
he told me what mics he uses though
EV 767, expensive
that;s probably not the key though
he doesn;t use any switchable effect type
units
whatever he uses, it;s on all the time
i don;t think he changes anything on a rack or
whatever, when he changes accordions
so there is not, as far as i can tell, anything
to compensate for the different accordions
though he may adjust the volume on his wireless
transmitter for each one

i have seen him a million times, too



--i would say the key to good sound is
a. multiple mics in 3 rows
b. good mic positioning on the 1 rows


--my accordions sound pretty good and i don;t
use expensive mics

--the 1 rows have a discontinued audio technica
mic [the element from same] called "brand x"
they were maybe $40 each

--the 3 rows have
[not kidding]
the elements from some plastic karaoke mics that
i got about 50 of for $50

--when i hear bad sound, i think it;s because
some people [larry miller, danny dyson, jr martin]
install the mics just anywhere in the box

facing down, facing sideways, backwards, anything

what you want is to point it at the reeds and
get it as close as you can to the trebles

nothing else i tried sounded worth a ****

==or just using 1 mic in a 3 row
it will have a few hot notes and a lot of cold ones


see this for pictures
http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=wle&P=&AID=1745304&CID=832262&T=1&E=Y&ILD=2798282


==wle.

Hey Larry,

Man, you are worse than me if you busted up your preamp that bad. I've only knocked over mike stands a few times, but only after drinking whiskey or too much beer.
ha ha. I have dents in some of my mike covers.

Rick.. I use the EV 767 for vocal mikes. They are very warm with good highs too. I love them for vocals. I have put them neck to neck with M58's and prefer the EV's.
I bet they would sound good in a box. They aren't much more than the mikes Larry sells(I have 7 accordions with the Shure 68?'s installed)

Thanks to all for the info on the Stomp Box. I'll look it up.

BTW, just got a great fiddle on ebay. I was a bit nervous about it, but the guy put on sound bites and let's you return it if you don't like it for any reason. Pretty exciting to get an instrument with good tones. you know what I mean.

Does anyone use compression with an internal mike?

Kirk

Hey wle,

I use an 8-channel mixer (http://www.alesis.com/products/multimix8usb/) and plug each accordion into it's own channel. I have to pot down the channels except for the accordion I'm using, to avoid having the mics in the accordions sitting on the floor picking up ambient sound, foot stomping . . . You could go multi-instrumental with this setup, adding your fiddle to a channel. I don't use wireless, and have a separate 1/4" cable between each accordion and its channel strip on the mixer. The C and triple-note have the same setting, the B-flat setting is about 20% lower. I could mark the board, but at this point, know where to set things by heart. I run the mixer output through an ART tube preamp (http://www.zzounds.com/item--ART127) which warms the sound, and seems to guard against feedback (there's some howl possibilities around 250 - 500 hZ). A bass player told me it also slightly compresses the sound, but I have no idea of that's true. I know it sounds richer with the tube preamp in the signal chain. The ART preamp also provides both 1/4" and XLR out.

Kirk,

Sounds like you've got a stellar release in the works! I'd like to hear it when you get it shrink-wrapped. Excellent idea of mixing up the textures and sounds (hats off).

As far as Keith's sound -- Man, I've gotten the same haughty attitude from him when I've begged him for 20 seconds of his attention. Geez, I promote his music on the air here in Dallas. Needless to say, the artists that give me the time of day get heavier rotation. That aside, Keith's tones and stylings are templates for all nouveau zydeco -- always has been so it seems. Last time I saw him (at Richard's) it appeared as though he was running his sound through a mixer on stage. I'm not a knowledgeable backline dude, but that's what I recall. I've seen a lot of zydeco accordionist run through a powered mixer, but Keith's high-volume clarity coupled with organ-jarring bass tones makes me wriggle and squeal like a little school girl... sippin' a beer, of course!

Sounds like Larry has some very good solutions to managing multiple accordions and mic'ing systems. He's a great source of gear info for this forum. As I mentioned in my earlier thread, after 14 years of trying various internal mic'ing management methods, the Magicstomp seems to have solved most of my internal mic'ing issues with a simple tap of my foot between accordion exchanges, all in very small, easy to use device. I like to keep my area of the stage cleared out for the accordions!

Big-ups to the internal players!

R!CK

I was fortunate enough to be at Slim's Yi-Ki-Ki the night Keith recorded his Live at Slim's CD. He had a veritable festival-sized PA in the house. I looked at his setup, and recall he had a guitar foot-switch EQ box, set in a V pattern (bass and treble maxed out, and mids tapered down to nothing). I've never tried an EQ box, and I don't know how much of his recording went direct to the recording device compared to how much came from putting a mic on the PA speakers, but it looked like his accordions went through that eq device. The subwoofers moved so much air, that when I stood in the door, many feet from the stage, I could feel the air blowing past me with each double clutchin' kick drum pedal stroke.

Now that's a cool story! I know that feeling from the knees down, where speakers kick up dust and ripple your Wranglers; where the wood floor vibrates like a decent foot massage. Where the kick drum bumps your uglies, the snare makes you blink and the accordion buzzes your teeth. I *like* that!

...Nothing better than live zydeco in a Creole club.
Keith's "Live At Slim's" is the best live zydeco recording ever, and quite possibly Keith's best CD. It ranks as one of the best zydeco CDs in my collection.

Keith's "V" set-up... no mids... innnnterrrresting. I'm gonna monkey around with that. Thanks for the info Capt. Russ! I know when Keith first hit the scene on his first two cassettes, the sound of his accordion resembles a tenor sax, kind of a "horny" sound in my opinion. How he achieved that quality remains a mystery to me. The same punchy low sound emerged on brother Brad Frank's "Walking To The Moon" disc, i.e., the tune, "Uptown Swing." I love that sound. Maybe the "V" is how it's acheived? I'm intrigued...

EV mics are good stuff. I've never heard of 'em being used as internals. I wonder if Jr. Martin knows about that -- I'll have to ask. That might prove to be very unique and quite good. Vocally speaking, I use a Shure Beta 58, which I've had for 8 years. I've gotten my money's worth from it and would hesitate using anything else from a reliability standpoint.

Good thread, Braves.

R!CK

Rick, Keith's live CD is high on my list, as are Beau Jocque's first live CD and Boozoo Live. They're so different from each other, but front such tight bands that hit a deep groove from the first note.