Dear Marc,

You sound like a well educated man, using words like "diatribes" a case in point, and rest assure that I'm certainly not been fascecious.

But I do know that your'e not as knowledgable in fine woodworking techniques as I am.

I have the experience to built a Cajun accordion, and if I do I will use where "necessary "mittered corners", simply because in this particular instance, it's the only proper,correct ways of doing it.

the use of "Butted" corners in the woodworking Industry is to say the least "amateurish", and shows a disdain and lack of knowledge the " Craft", especially when you try to mask them with decorative "metal hardware".

The " Ruse" doesn't work as the "Mistakes" always visually rear their ugly little heads.

Anyway rest assure that Larry, knows the difference in bettwen the 2 joints, and that he knows that the mittered corners are the accepted quality joints in the wood working industry.

BTW, any professional and seasonned woodworker should be able to duplicate a Cajun accordion,it's not a difficult task, pretty routine actually, where they would get stuck obviously is the tuning and also not beeing from LA, if they're not from that state.

I mean for some ,authenthicity is a problem, but not for me.

Butted corners take less time to do, and time is money, and that's why L.M does use them.

I would run the chance of beeing ridiculed by my pears if I did butted joints for my case joinery.
Larry Miller builds his "boxes" like Ikea shelves, and that's not for a musical instrument a correct way to do it.

Not only that but I would have to live with myself, , especially knowing the unprofessional "faux pas" that I have committed.

Craig, for the 2000 + bucks that you paid, for each of your accordions, you should expect the best in fabrication, and your'e not getting it.

Why, can't you ask Larry, to tell you why he doesn't do mitters?,you deserve an answer, and I can't accept the argument that you don'care whether your boxes have mittered corners or not, it's shorsighted, geez, 2000 big ones, and crude joinery, you've got to be kidding.

Ask him, don't be shy, just for the sake of learning something about the way your instrument was made.

2000 big ones, 6000 big ones, wow !!!!!!!!!, your'e putting me on.

Krazzy Kannukk.

Re: Mittered corners/accordions
From: Larry Miller, Bon Cajun accordions: 28 years of building.
In my 28 years of building accordions, showing and selling accordions, meeting 2,000+ accordion musicians I have not heard any body say anything about mittered corners vs butt corners.
Here is the history. The old German built accordions of pre 1942 had 45o mittered corners on the main frames and bellow frames. That was the tradition of that era.
About 30-35 years ago, Marc Savoy, an early Louisiana builder found a more praticial way to butt set/glue the frames. It's easier, hold just as good because we all now use a glued corner block to reinforce. so the butted, glued, with corner block is stronger than the old mittered corner with out corner block. Add the corner block to the mittered corner and they are the same strength. So if there is a person who prefers a mittered corner, they may be able to find an older-fashioned builder who still does it but probably hasn't kept up with the improvements in technology that the top three builders have accomplished.
It's not a picture frame. It's a high quality Cajun hand made accordion. End of subject.
Thank you,
Larry Miller

Thank you Larry for posting .

From Claude Luneau 50 odd years in the woodworking industry, at every level: from apprentice to manager.
Very well versed in using Woodworking tools and machinery and their maintenance, and having experience at "all" levels of woodworking techniques.

Marquettry

Dovetails, all kinds.

Spray painting, you name it , Larry.

Government certified.

European trained.

In brief , Larry, I can modestly say that I know my stuff, I'm a pro.

And when I asserted in some of my earlier posts that you were taking the easy way by making butted joints rather then mittered, I knew that I was right, I mean you proved it by admitting that they are easier to make then mittered ones and easier in your mind means faster.



So what you do is taking short cuts, easier on the pocket book, isn't?, saves times , hmmmm!,more quick sales.

Who cares about traditions, heh!.

Larry, I can't disaprove you on the 2 joints common strenghts, as I'm well aware of the reinforced inside corner blocks, witch Iknow are used on both joints (mittered and butted)routinely.

Larry, I'm not talking about strengh, I'm talking about Luthier or musical instruments makers high traditional standards, to witch you refuse to adhere.

And Larry, I have to strongly disagree with you in that a cajun accordion "isn't a picture frame", it's indeed composed in part of 4 different wood frames , and if you don't mittered their corners the wood grain will show under the decorative corners , and if you try to hide the offending site like some builders do by setting them with metal corners the same width as the width of your frames, you still will see this monumental "faux pas" on your outside frames corners.
Unless:
Marc Savoy, this clever man gets his frame suppliers to dadoe a strip of marquetry over the offending and ugly joints,ok so his boxes are visually super charged with the strips, but at least you don't see them.

Oh,well, an expedient, rather expensive, wouldn't you say, a "ruse" I'll say.

Why not in the first place mitter the corners?, beats me.

But MR. Savoy, "covers" the offending joints, for only 2 reasons: they're not correct,woodworking wise and they they're ugly, and he does indeed know it, and in goes the strips " no vue ni connu".

Improvements in modern technology, Larry, you can't be serious, a cajun accordion is made in parts with wood frames and butted joints are to say the least, an expedient, as they are unsightly.

Mittered joints are used routinely in very modern top quality fine furniture, yes Larry, even in 2006, but you do know that.

A cajun accordion shouldn't be assembled like an Ikea piece of shelving, using butted joints.

And I 'm deeply saddened that youv'e taken the easier way.


Ps: But what would Jay say , what would you say if I order 6 accordions,(I mean there are a lot of wealthy individuals out there) and I want all of them to have mittered corners? that's not at all unrealistic, isn't?.
I mean that's ,give or take apprx 12 grands, not too shabby, isn't?.

Tell me, please?

Would he refer this particular customer to youngish builders like Jude Moreau,or John Rogers,whom do mitters ?,I wonder, hmmmmm!.

That's a lot of ducats to throw out of one's shop.

And just because one does't want to satisfy a customer, 12 grands Larry!!!!!!!!.

Why is it that's so difficult in making the proper traditional wood joinery?

Lache pas la patate.

Kindly.

Claude.

Claude, the thing that seems to be bothering you so much is one of pure aesthetics, not anything else. Larry Miller and Marc Savoy are some of the most successful builders because they make a great accordion, and because most folks dont care about corner joinery. As a woodworker, I also prefer miters, but I view that as personal taste, because I know their accordions are plenty sturdy, and anyone who can pick up one of their accordions and say it is not a great example of craftmanship and pride, is focusing on the wrong places. Actually, to this woodworker, miters are an inferior joint to dovetails, do you propose builders use dovetails?

If I had not seen your name in so many posts here discussing worthwhile subjects, I would assume you were one of those forum trolls, because harping on this to the degree you are is way past ridiculous. And frankly, insulting the craftmanship of men respected way more than you on this forum makes you lose what credibility you may have had.

Hey Claude, why don't you post a picture of the accordion you built?? I'm sure it sounds great

I must say Claude that I find you to be ill-mannered and insulting. Mr. Larry Miller is a fine accordion maker who has been devoted to his craft for many years.

It never ceases to amaze me that there is ALWAYS one know-it-all on these discussion groups who feels the need stir up discontent.

Yes - asking about the corners is reasonable. Once you have the answer - that should be the end of it. Implying that Mr. Miller (a very respected craftsman) is lazy because he has a different opinion then you is outrageous.

You forget sir - that this is not Burger King and ordering an instrument is not the same as ordering a sandwich. You don’t necessarily get to “have it your way”.

When a REAL Musician needs an instrument - he or she selects a craftsman that makes one that fits their needs best. Not only in looks, but in sound, the way it plays and durability.

I do not remember where you are from sir – but obviously they do not teach manners there. I hope that Mr. Miller would turn down your request for 6 accordions. Not because of the money- but because he is not a sandwich maker. He has developed his own style of making instruments (which IS an art) which not only look good but play very well too. Quite frankly, if you don’t like it – get yours somewhere else. I’m sure it would not hurt Mr. Miller’s feelings.

...thank you Megan...

I paid $890, new, in a case and shipped. Butt joints. Binci reeds, metal buttons, sounds and plays great. Not $2000 as Claude erroneously stated. For an additional $1100 I could of gotten mitered joints!
Craig