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Re: Faceplate etching

Steve,

Part of you question, was about the provenance of the decorative motif on the face plates of the "Cajun" boxes, that is right over the builder's name.

These motifs come from a European asthetic movement of the 1890's called , " The Art Nouveau Movement", witch originated in some parts of Europe, especially France, England and Germany.

The "Motifs" were widely used in Adds, Books corners illustrations,Newspapers layouts, Subway entrances as in Paris, France and so on.

See Meloche site for pic of a Sterling box face plate.

Ok, so advert your eyes for other very interesting details, hmmmmm .

Nah, It was not my intentions to needle, just to educate .

Claude.

Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Thanks for the links. Been curious about the design, and I'm a sucker for factoids. I'm also a banjo player, and found out the reason stars, crescent moons, and the like were so previlant inlays, is because during the banjo boom, many of the people that did the inlay work were craftsmen from the Middle East. The designs were part of their culture and could knock them out pretty quickly. The companies weren't concerned about sybolism, just something that looked good.
BTW, most of those banjos had dowel sticks that went through the rim and screwed in the back. No joints at all!!

Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

It's kinda like that with the old sterling designs. As mentioned they are from the 1890's. Now the meaning of them being on many different builders boxes is that some of these builders did not want to or could not afford to have a custom design made and the people who had the engraving machine did not have different template disigns so! voila!! do em all the same. Besides the buyers may not have wanted to pay extra for a custom design anyway.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

I think they use a CNC Router.You can purchase a used one for about 5000.00. Jr do his own!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

No cajun box builder I know has a CNC router. They use the more low tech and cheaper pantograph engraver.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

What does CNC stand for?
If it has to do with a computor driven router, then let me introduce you Larry Miller, Jude Moreau and Edward Poullard. I know in the beginning that Larry was having Marc do his face plates on his pantagram because he showed me the brass template. But Larry purchased a used computor driven router machine a few years back. I have had my plates done on such a machine , from the very start. Ed is currently having his done by laser ingraving. I have had 2 of mine done by this process.
As for the scroll work on the corners of the face plates: I was told many years ago, by the late Charlie Ortego, that they were a direct copy of the old Sterling ingraving. What "meaning" they may have, if any , I have no idea.
So Bill, now you know of at least three of us who don't use a pantograph engraver. ( no offence taken, I know you didn't mean any, just setting the record straight )
Jude

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Jude,

What is the design on your accordions? I saw a picture of one of yours but couldnt make it out.

Very sorry to hear about your friend Lyman.

Bryan Lafleur

CNC and the Cajun Accordion

CNC is computerized numerical control. The machining center will be controled by a computer program either on the machine or down loaded from a remote computer. The idea here is that an engineer can create parts in a program like Pro engineer or AutoCad to create part files that can be brought into a CAM package. The programer will build a program specifing the tools to use along with the speeds and feeds for the machine to follow. Raw material is loaded into the CNC machining machine, the program is run and the part is produced automatically. For the wood working industry CNC routers have been developed that specialize in wood products. And there are machines that are cheap enough that a small operater like an accordion maker could use. The advantage is all the parts will be made exactly to specification. No more sticking buttons, missaligned air holes, knocking base boxes,loose stops, missaligned button holes and yes Claude perfect miters.

Re: CNC and the Cajun Accordion

Bruce,

Well, no more excuses,now that my little darlings are easier to make with laser cutting techniques.

Have you ever tried to make compounds mitred angles joints, or mitred dovetail joints or mitred through dovetail ones.

A "cinch" with the "laser Machine".

What happened with the accordion building progect that you and Dwight undertook last year?

Any pics?.

Claude.

Re: Re: CNC and the Cajun Accordion

The cutting of wood products would not be with a laser on the CNC routers I spoke of. The wood would be cut with normal and coustom router bits. I think the laser devices would be more appropriatey used for face plate etching. Dwight's accordion project has ben religated to the box of accordion parts. There is part of a keyboard a couple of reed blocks and some uncompleted sides. He was not satisfied with the wood(tiger birch) (almost impossible to sand out tool marks). I did complete an accordion for myself. Mostly done using machines normally used for metalworking like milling machines and lathes. All parts fit together like champs and the accordion sounds good. And I have engineered in many improvments that I think could produce a better accordion. Not too bad for an amateur builder. Pics of the box + much more at the above link.

Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Note that some youngish LA. box builders completely omit the face end plates decorations over their names .

R.Falcon has none and J. Roger has replaced them with a " floral" theme, and I mean no criticisim here, but that my interpretation of them, they are nice and I can't remember what Jude uses if anything, what is it Jude?.

And I know there are others.

In any case, I have never like the idea that these lovely elegant motifs have been partially "hidden" behind the treble board thickness, and I think these two avant guarde builders have found a suitable design solution.

Ok, just because the Monarch and the Sterlings end plates had hidden motifs, doen't mean that builders can't innovate and improve on old designs!.

Cheers!.

Claude.

Re: Faceplate etching

Here is the machine or one very similar to the one Marc Savoy uses to do his faceplates. Dont know where he had the pattern engraved but it is done in brass and bigger than the actual faceplate as the machine is a pantograph.
Greg

Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Templates for the trademark names used by Mark and John were made of hard brass and made by a template manufacturer. John made his own templates for the floral designs.

Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

would it be possible to laser engrave these decorations?.

Now I do realize that the wood might burn somewhat, but has anyone try this metod, or does anyone knows of a different engraving system.?

BTW, the term "etching", is too me somewhat misleading as it applies, I'm pretty sure to a printmaking method.

Could be wrong though.

Claude.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Claude re: laser... Yes.

You can do CO2 laser. The trick is that there are various grades of hardness among wood. Unlike any rotary router type bit, the Laser settings are crucial to the hardness and the DPI settings for specific detail.

Laser in this fashon, operates on a digitized pattern of grey scale. The darker portions of the grey scale achieves the deeper cuts and the lighter shades recieve a delicate minimized cuts. So in essance, any black and white photo (or converted photo to black and white) can establish the digitized parameters for etching and engraving using a
CO2 laser through the grey scale. The beam is measured in wattage, as such, the settings and programming from a computer is the real measure of success or failure. This is the method of engraving I was looking to emerge into the 3D artform for accordions. There is much much more, for what I will not go into.

Hope I did not bore you too much. Oh and did I mention that laser can do miter cuts with precission??

Nonc D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

Then there's the kind of bas relief sculpting that can be done with abrasive media, like what is done with "sand-carved" wooden signs.

There's really no reason an accordion body couldn't look like Kermit the Frog made out of urethane foam, as long as there was a place for bellows in the middle and buttons at either end.

And why not buttons in a curve like some computer keyboards? You could cast an impression of the heel of your thumb to get the proper shape for the back of the button board...er-ga-cordionomics

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Faceplate etching

All of the methods mentioned could be used for decorating accordions. The problem is return on investment!!!



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