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CAJUN ACCORDION DISCUSSION GROUP

 

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Re: note bending accordion

Sounds great, but also a little bit strange.
It's a kind of slide-accordion.
Maybe it's usefull for fiddle-tunes.
Sliding together with the fiddle.
I wunder how the sound of the Cajun-accordion(Junior Martin) is.

Re: note bending accordion

I have listen to more samples.
It's also amazing.
Tom wrote this for cajun-music.
You will find more under technical information.

Is this a serious technology?
We believe so. We already know that the technology is capable of controversey, and controversey suggests seriousness. For instance, Cajun music has its own distinctive and richly adorned features, and the single row diatonic, along with the fiddle, has achieved a central position there. The fiddle has a wide range of freedom in its excursions from the melody line, especially during breaks. The accordion on the other hand, has assumed a more limited role with regard to melody line during breaks. I believe this is partly because the accordion provides a percussive sound in complement to the lyrical sound of the fiddle, but also because the instrument is melodically limited. Here we have a typical mating ritual between the capabilities of an instrument and its musical genre, and it certainly is a challenge to successfully incorporate pitch bending into accordion cajun music. Many cajun musicians would not care to even try, and some would be vehemently opposed to it. A conclusion we might draw here is that adding pitch bend to an accordion is a drastic modification to the conventional design. Whether a cajun accordion player who bends notes will someday be accepted within the cajun community remains to be seen. Such a musician would perhaps need to be young (at least in spirit), rebellious, and very good. Whatever the case, such a controversity on the acceptance of pitch bending doesn't exist in some other musical genres, and in these genres, the primary concerns of the musicians involve simply mastering the enhanced instrument itself. Depending upon their musical genres and types of keyboards, some musicians will find mastering the technology a challenge, while others will find it a breeze. All should find it exciting and fun.

$20 harmonica

just get a $20 harmonica

side benefit, a LOT cheaper to play in
different keys

i have no faith in a note bending accordion
working

i can imagine it, MAYBE, if you played one
note at a time, with one reed open

otherwise i would expect it to be impossible
to make more than one note, one reed to play
in tune while sliding

maybe that;s why it isn;t happening yet

wle.

Re: $20 harmonica

I totally concur, Larry... Good points.

Also, if you think about it, ornamentation is a better (and more interesting) method to turn a note. It's what gives C&Z music its social flavor.

R!CK

wanna bend, buy a blues harp[:))]

Agree with you, Rick.
A cajun accordion is a cajun accordion, otherwise it wouldn't be a cajun accordion anymore, right?
Maybe a piano accordion would be more suitable for bending.... or a blues harp (harmonica).

Gus

Changing Cajun music.

I don't actually think that a bending accordion is that far a field.

Thank about it.
Take things back a hundred years or so when "Cajun" music was played on the fiddle. I bet the first folks that played the music on an accordion got some questionable looks.

Than take it forward 50 years or so when the pedal steel became a staple in "Cajun" music.

I don't see a pitch bending accordion as being that far off, really.

I remember about ten years ago or so when Tom brought his pitch bending accordion to Augusta Heritage in West Virginia. I tried it out, but couldn't make it fit in.

But that doesn't mean someone else could not make it work.

Only time will tell...
Since it's already been over 10 years, maybe time has already told!

DP

Re: wanna bend, unpack your pedal steel guitar

I have a pedal steel guitar in a case.
I'm going to unpack it and I'm bending all the notes I can find.
I shall keep my headphones on my head.
On the accordion I prefer the traditional way, but everybody who wants to bend must go for it.
I think it's not easy to play and it sounds special.
Some people will like it.

Re: wanna bend ? buy yourself an old mule

Re: note bending accordion

I was at the Strawberry Park CZ Festival in either 1998 or 1999, where Boozoo Chavis and Steve Riley performed. The designer brought a prototype of the single-row pitch-bending accordion. I was there when Boozoo tried it. He played a few licks, made a sour face, and gave it back. Steve Riley borrowed it and took it on tour. Not sure if he ever recorded with it.

Re: Re: note bending accordion

I enquired on having one of my boxes adapted..just out of curiosity. The bender developer was very open about his work but said he was too busy to accomodate requests..

It will remain, I foresee, an eye-ear-opening experiment and that's all it seems. An aquired taste for sure. I certainly wouldn't want my accordion sounding like a harmonica... which it appears to do.

Glenn

Re: Re: Re: note bending accordion

I think you have to go back to what L. English said. If you are playing double notes or blends how would you bend the notes. What happens is that if you make too many changes you no longer have cajun music. It is what it is because of that one row accordion.

Re: Re: Re: Re: note bending accordion

I have played harp since I was a small kid, bending kicked in at around 10 or 11 yrs old... a great discovery for any windjammer... all part of the progressive steps of blowing harp. I have a higher dollar suzuki that boasted bending on both the in and the out (it does on certain notes) that was cool, but not for the price and not for what blues I played.

They told me 10 button would come easier for having a handle playing harmonica... wrong! I just don't turn blue in the face and hyper-ventlate like before. Harp or no harp, the learning curve for accordion was and is long road for the likes of me... but that ok

Ditto the harp if ya want to bend notes. Diatonic yes, but differant instruments entirely.

What I do wonder is this:
If you want to bend sound with an accordion (singles, doubles, triples or blends )... can you do it with electronics and a peddle? The hoots and whistles of sound equipment and electronic add on these days do alot of magic.

Any sound wizzard thoughts?

Nonc D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: note bending accordion

Nonc - I imagine you could adapt the kind of pitch bending circuit operated by a joystick on some electronic keyboards to a foot pedal. However, for that application you would want to use a midi accordion without reeds: you wouldn't want to be standing next to the on-pitch sound of reeds vibrating in your accordion while the bent pitch sound was coming out of speakers in the room!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: note bending accordion

that;s the problem - if the accordion reeds
make any sound, they will clash with the
pitch-bent sounds

wle.

Re: note bending accordion

Guitars have had note bending the variable tension levers for decades. Many contemporary player love them, many traditional players never use them.

Bluegrass is a good example traditional vs. modern. Many players want to sound exactly like the classic 1940 accostic recordings, other prefer to push the musical limits.

It is a free market and we buy what sounds best to our ears.

RPr

If I had one, I would use it sparingly.

It's hard to say if this thing will ever go into production in a serious way. But if it did, and I got one, I would use it sparingly. I think I would be more interested in using it on a triple row, because it is on the triple row that I tend to play bluesy single note lines which lend themselves to bending. As it is now, since bending is not possible, I spend a lot of time looking for the right combination of buttons to simulate a bend by doing a slur instead. This has been an interesting challenge, and opens up the use of the keyboard in unexpected ways.

-David

roland fr3b

i;ve considered, am considering
a CBA, chromatic button accordion

there, it;s just like a guitar
the half steps are just adjacent buttons
totally logical

but if i were going to do that i may as
well go whole hog with the roland
slicer-dicer-weedeater do-everything
model

the VERY annoying thing about it is, so
far, there is no diatonic-simulating
key configuration available

there it sits, with 5 rows of buttons,
completely computerized and programmable [by the
designers, not the users] -
yet totally unplayable by a
regular button accordionist..

talk about your instant transpositions,
slurs, other instruments, wireless, ethernet, midi,
built in speakers, effects, programmability
of every aspect of the accordion [even down
to 'how much do you want it to go out of tune
when you play it hard?]

FR3B

$3k

very annoying!

wle.

Re: roland fr3b

I have heard others make the same complaint about the lack of programability with the Roland. If it was a $200 cheepie, you could understand, but at $3000 it seems pretty boneheaded.

I gotta say that I am not terribly impressed with any of the reedless/midi/whatever type accordions out there. They all seem too gadgety and too expensive.

-David

Re: Re: roland fr3b

this one, well, i have hopes for it

allegedly it works well and sounds pretty good
i wrote to them volunteering to either
consult with them on what to put into
the diatonic version,
or write the code myself. :)

think of it
5 row diatonic - or chromatic - in any
button layout you want

irish B/C
club
regular 3 row
5 individual 1 rows - not necessarily in 5ths/4ths
i would have C, D, B flat and A as my one rows

my 5 row would be
G/C/F/Bflat/Eflat
with half step transposability for all 5 rows at once

my chromatic would be C system

or no - janko whole tone
more like a piano

C# D# F G A
C D E F# G# A# C
C# D# F G A
C D E F# G# A# C
C# D# F G A

now that is logical!


wle.

Re: Re: Re: roland fr3b

Do you think you could pull that off? I like the ideas you mention.

Any idea of the sound quality? I guess I am just old fashioned, but if I am playing an accordion, I still want it to sound like an accordion. I wonder if they could build in decent sounds for Cajun accordions with different degrees of wet/dry, and for typical sounds of triple row or piano accordions with different reed setups like Mussette and so on.

But even if they had all that, and the point of entry is still $3K or more, well, I guess if I didn't already have a bunch of accordions that would be one thing, but given that I do, I wonder what the compelling reason to upgrade would be. Like you say, there are all those different configurations available at the touch of a switch, which is pretty cool.

I wonder if over time, the price will come down enough for it to make more sense than it does now. Do you think they have a gigantic markup on those as they stand today, or are they so expensive because they are just recouping their R&D costs? With such a high price, it is going to limit the number of people who adopt that approach.

-David

Re: Re: Re: Re: roland fr3b

Do you think you could pull that off? I like the ideas you mention.


--me? not without working there and having
access to their stuff


Any idea of the sound quality? I guess I am just old fashioned, but if I am playing an accordion, I still want it to sound like an accordion. I wonder if they could build in decent sounds for Cajun accordions with different degrees of wet/dry, and for typical sounds of triple row or piano accordions with different reed setups like Mussette and so on.


--the piano and chromatic players seem to like them

they do have a cajun sound but i have not heard it

currently they don;t seem to have that many
accordion sounds

and you can;t just put them in yourself

neither can you define your own keyboard layout



But even if they had all that, and the point of entry is still $3K or more, well, I guess if I didn't already have a bunch of accordions that would be one thing, but given that I do, I wonder what the compelling reason to upgrade would be. Like you say, there are all those different configurations available at the touch of a switch, which is pretty cool.

----well, of course, if it could *replace* a boatload
of accordions, which would have to include
satisfactory sound, then 3k isn;t looking so
bad

--the 3k model is entry level
the fancy one is 5k


I wonder if over time, the price will come down enough for it to make more sense than it does now. Do you think they have a gigantic markup on those as they stand today, or are they so expensive because they are just recouping their R&D costs? With such a high price, it is going to limit the number of people who adopt that approach.

--can;t tell really
if it was 1k i would suspect they were
doing loss leader marketing
if it was 10k i would say no one would be interested
i suspect they set it right where they want it
a good piano accordion is 2-3k anyway
or a good chromatic


--wle.


-David

All this and a box of Trix

This all sounds quite lavish; but check this...

The ultimate set-up would cost around $40K, but look what you'd get:

Every good key on a Louisiana handmade.

Pick up the Bon Cajun and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Acadian and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Falcon and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Martin and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Bon Temps and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Le Capitaine and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Mouton and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Master and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Pointe Noir and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Acadiana and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Magnolia and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Cajun and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Crown and do a couple of tunes.
Pick up the Evangeline and do a couple of tunes.

Every box would have its own unique character and temperment. Strapping on each one would be an honor and a treat to those witnessing this unique set of music. Of course, in the second set, you'd have the opportunity to play them all again.

zzzz-zzzzzzzz-zzzzzz (please don't wake me)...

R!CK



Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

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