Frans isn`t a European builder anymore.
He lives and works in Colombia.

He makes nice boxes, but they sound very Canadian, at least the ones i`ve heard did.

Wilfred

I really like it. I have a question. How are you doing the graphics? Is it carved in? Silkscreen?? This is my biggest stumbling block for my own accordion building.

Jarkka, I tried to you email you today at the address showing on your page. It didn't work. I was curious as whether or not you sell them, and if so, in what price range?

Gluing and clamping miters is the challenge. It is a weak joint without first sealing the large end grain area and using splines or biscuits. No other musical instruments use them, including pianos and their benches. You won't find them in furniture with the exception of trim and decorative framing. The accordion would be considered a frame and it is appropriate, if executed correctly. Keep a mental record of what you see when out and about. Frames and interior trim is where you find mitered joints.

As you know splines would be seen, so again the visual aspect of the crossgrain problem, will arise.

I dont want to see that "cross grain, it's ugly. it's disconcerting, it interrupts one's thoughts,as you look at an accordion frame and your eye follows the lovely grain pattern and all of a sudden you "see" an horizontal much darker line and 7 more offending times at that.

Again, your'e right when you said that the construction of a "Cajun" accordion is composed mainly of frames.

And your'e not going to see a picture frame with butted corners, I guarantee you.

also I agree with you that a "Cajun" style accordion is composed mainly of " frames".

And they're framing "clamps" , solid cast iron ,and others designed especially to hold the frames corners while they dry, and these clamping techniques have been used from time immemorial.

And you do know that with the proper tools and of course knowledge mittered corners are "routine" to make.

They're only two reasons as to why mitters aren't used: Inexperience and lack of design sense.


Nevertheless, they shouldn't be any arguments as to their use, "simply" because "BOTH" joints are and should be reinforced with angled blocks.

And this is what one should see when opening your own box, or any european ones.

The practice of using mittered corners is an old one, used by the makers of European wooden accordeons, ever since their inception into that market, and I'll dare anyone to find an old "Monarch" or "Sterling" or any other old wooden accordeons with open mittred corners.

Ok, as J, or Larry Miller have admitted, they take a while longuer to make, not that much more, so?.

Poor argument.



But , what if you don't have metal corners to "hide" the offending cross grain, well you use miterred joints as it's the case for "ALL" European wooden accordions IE: Maugein, Saltarelle,Castagnari, and all the Italian Organettas etc!.

Time, shouldn't be the essence.

Even if you have a production line going.

Claude.

I just saw three accordions, one from Jr. Martin, one from Marc Savoy and one from Larry Miller. They all have box corners. Is there an accordion maker in LA that does use mitered corners exclusively?

I know that Charlie Ortego of Lake Charles used only mitered corners. I am not sure about Sidney Brown, but it seems like he used a mitered joint as well, although it could have been a butt joint because all his were painted. Doesn't Randy Falcon use mitered joints? Seems like most of the others I have seen are butt joints.

I find it really amusing that this subject comes up so often!!

...and really amusing that I couldn't resist getting in on the topic!

I can tell you this...when I am playing an instrument, the last thing I am thinking about is the corners...mitered or butted...if I put it on a shelf and view it as work of art, maybe then I prefer the mitered look. But since my instruments stay in the case until I play them and as I play them, I am uninterested in the corners...and a lot more interested in the sound and response...corners hardly ever cross mmy mind.

I have heard all the arguments from this forum and many, many years ago from different builders. As a player, though...I don't really care about it. I am after a certain sound and response, first and foremost...I don't spend very much time gazing at my instrument. Nothing wrong with gazing...I just don't do it that often.

Keep up your crusade Claude...it is still fun to talk about...(evidently, I still thought so!)

John Roger and Jude Moreau use mitered corners, as well as Rusty Sanner. Cecil Fontenot (Swallow) uses butt joints. Harrison Fontenot (Imperial) uses miters.

It appears few people are bothered by the butt joints, it seems Larry and Marc havent had too much problem selling theirs. Kind of a builders pride thing. I bet few folks even notice that type of thing. Cept for crazy Kanucks that is.

Can we pleeeease refer to "butt joints" as "booty joints"?

Thanks,

R!CK

Your point is well taken Chris and one can respect your opinion. However there are those who appreciate fine details and fine workmanship and demand it. So having experience in cabinet making (furniture ) I have to agree with Claude. In the European tradition an apprentice instrument maker would need to know about mitered joints and how to make them. This kind of knowledge can only improve the quality ones work. I am sorry that you find this kind of discussion amusing rather than serious for future accordion makers.

Gregg--
I don't find the subject amusing...I find the fact that the same subject comes up almost bi-weekly, or monthly--that is what I find amusing. (and it has been hotly debated ever since I started visting this board about four-five years ago!) Hey, I am enjoying the thread...for some weird reason. I appreciate fine details and craftmanship as well as you might, Gregg. My point is that some of details that are the most important to me don't have a thing to do with the corners.

Plenty others obviously care a great deal for the corners...for me, that small detail is not the number one reason for buying or not buying an accordion.

Just my 2 cents.

Long live the corner debate!

From an architect's perspective, Craig has a point. A miter joint is directionally neutral: up or down are treated the same as left and right.

While Cajun (melodeon or one-row) accordions aren't designed to be load-bearing objects (unless you're Marc and like to stand on them), they do have a distinct orientation when being both played and stored: the stops are the top. So in that sense, one can visualize the vertial frame members as being like columns and the horizontal members as beams spanning across the top or providing a foundation below.

If we were to approach this like many tradtional furniture makers, we might actually carve some flutes in the verticals to make them look like Greek columns, and maybe put some steps in the top piece to remind the viewer of a stone cornice (these thoughts are very "un-modern")!

Looks like Claude is not the only one to be shocked by naked end grain (unlike, say, Gustave Stickley): I looked at a picture of one of the Shinto shrines in Ise, Japan, because I remembers the prominent and exquisite extension of the roof frame. Behold! The covered the rafter ends with gold caps! (see link #3, above).

Many European accordions get parked on their bass end on little rubber feet when not being played, so that really confuses the architectonic agenda. Obviously, this can all get really deep and wading boots can only protect one to a limited degree

There is one maker who used mitered corners exclusivly and that is John Roger on his Cajun- brand name accordions. Now there may also be others that I don't know of.

Randy Falcon does.

Oopps!,Sorry, Randy uses "Bootty" joints!.

In reading this thread and all of the previous ones on the subject, it seems to me that there are several types of builders, if you will...

1. Performance & Asthetics
2. Asthetics
3. Performance

There are players who aren't necessarily concerned with look as they are the "playability" of the box, and there are those who are more interested in the beauty of the box. I myself like a middle of the road box, looks with perfomance !

I look at the whole thing as pride in workmanship.

Cest tout!!

Very Nice J. !! Very Nice !