Hello Hal,

For the sake of providing an appropriate explanation,
are familiar with terms such as 'flatted seventh', etc.
or are you a strictly play-by-ear musician?

There are many ways to explain the 'second position'
depending on what your musical background is ..

--Big Nick

Hi Nick,

I'm afraid flattened 7th doesn't mean too much to me, although I kinda have a general idea. I can read music from playing in school bands, but mostly play my accordion by ear (mostly because of lack of sheet music), and never learned to transpose keys.
I have a C and D Bon Cajun, and have been working with my D on trying to learn some old Irish whistle tunes from the music many of which are in A. Any advice greatly appreciated.

Hal

Most single row Irish box players tend to play mainly in D and G on a D accordion.

Basically G has one accidental, F#, D has two accidentals f# and c# and A has three accidentals f#, c# and g#. So when playing a D accordion you are short a note from the scale in G and A.

However, as a lot of Irish music is modal, ie. doesn't use a full scale, there are quite a lot tunes in G that don't use the C so you don't have the C# clash.

Otherwise you just put ornamentation (a roll) in when you get to the note you don't have.

So the rule is when playing in A on a D accordion, watch out for any G# notes (pull on 4), and when playing in G watch out for any C# notes (pull on 6)and their relevant octave notes.

One row players do sometimes transpose to a more suitable key to suit their instrument rather than struggle with odd keys and missing notes.

If you want to hear how it should be done listen to Johnny Connolly (Senior) who plays a Martin and a Hohner.

Home hand position for second position is 5/6/7/8 keys.

Home hand position for first position doesn't really make as much sense.

You might run into some problems playing the irish tunes as irish boxes tend to have two rows keyed a half step apart, giving you a fuller chromatic range. Won't be able to emulate some of those on the cajun box.

Hal,

As you know, to play in first position you start on the C button and run up the scale, do, re, mi, etc.

In second position, you start on the G button, two buttons down from the C button. When you go up the scale do, re, me etc. When you get to the seventh note "ti", it will not sound right. That is either the curse or the charm of playing in second position.

Also the bass cords will not always be correct for the tune.

I know it sounds wierd but that is part of what makes the "Cajun sound" Cajun. Ya got to love it.

Good luck
RPr

Ah, The Charm! You end up playing tunes with some octaves (mainly for emphasis) mixed with single and double notes. Just plow right in, mix it up and have fun learning it! Then you can move on to "third position etc where even more compromises appear. But, hey, that's where your artistry and musicality come in big time. Do we ever stop learning? I hope not.

Hal,

I forgot to mention, if you are playing second position with musicians who are not familiar with the Cajun box, they may find the bass cords distracting. You may just want to play the right hand only at first.

In tunes like O Carrolin's "Fanny Powers" where the seventh note is very common, you may have to play a harmony note instead.

Sounds confusing, but it is a lot of fun.
RPr

Hal,

Let me hazard a couple simple rules for the first
& second position playing ..

When primarily using "push" to play a song on a
"C" accordion, all the buttons, on the "push" on
both sides of the instrument, are going to make
a nice happy "C" chord. (C's and E's and G's).

That is playing in position #1.

When you play primarily in the "pull" position, this
is called position #2 and is used for the key of "G".

In any box, count 4-steps lower that the key of the
box (in "C" .. C, B, A, G) and you've got the key
for the pull, or the key for "position #2".

With a "D" box, (D, C, B, A) you're pull-key is "A".

It always works like this.

The great thing about playing in the pull position
(or "position #2") is that you get one "blue" note.

(That's the "flatted seventh" I had referred to earlier)

And, a blue note is great for blues!

It's easier to hear than it is to write about :-)

I hope we're helping more than confusing ..

--Big Nick

Now what button would that "blue" note be then...please...
Also, above link is a nice lesson where I have learned to play The Back Door. It says its in D as the box is a D but playing up on the high notes and appearing to be 1/2 and 1/2 on the push/pull is that really being played in D or is it in A ?

Still trying to work my way up to learn from your site Nick, looks & sounds great, just gotta get moving my fingers and eyes faster to keep up...Tx

That Back Door is in A on a D accordion.

Pdubya,

The common “C” scale that is played on
the “C” box, is: 3, 3’, 4, 4’, 5, 5’, 6’, 6.

The notes that you’re actually playing are:
C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

This is a diatonic scale, equivalent to
white keys on a piano.

(Are you familiar with this nomenclature?
The apostrophe means that you pull the
bellows when depressing a button.)

Now, a “G” scale on a “C” box can be played
like this: 5, 5’, 6’, 6, 7’, 7, 8’, 8

The notes that you’re playing are:
G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G

What’s going on here is that the key
of “G” really wants an F-Sharp, not
an F-Natural.

So, for the key of “G”, you’re using
one flatted note (the 8-pull button).

A little more nomenclature ..
Instead of calling the notes by their
absolute names of A, B, C, etc.
you can just give each note in the scale
a number (1, 2, 3, etc.)

In the key of “G”, you’ll see that that
“F” note (8-pull) is the seventh note
of the scale.

Hence, the famous “flatted-seventh” which
is a very blue note indeed

(And, there are more of ‘em ..)

Does that help, or cloud things up?

--Big Nick

Couple of things I wonder about. Why is the 8 pull considered a flatted F? And what about the 4 pull? Which brings me to- isnt the G scale also including those same notes but in the lower octave, like the 3 and 4 along with the 7 and 8 pulls, etc? I am recently sort of relearning several songs in G that I learned only in the higher octaves, and now am playing in the lower octaves (thanks Rick, Cory, and Jude).

Sometimes I get so baffled by all this terminology, it's easier to just play, it'll work out in the end.

Bryan,
Its terminology that you don't HAVE to understand in order to play. In a nutshell:

The C major scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B and the next note, C starts a new octave. Notice it is only a half step from the last note in the scale to the new octave. The G scale is G, A, B, C, D, E, F# and the next note is G. Every note in the G scale is also in the C scale except the F#. On an accordion, you have to use the notes that is there which is an F (F# flattened a half step). The seventh note is flatted making it a blue note; however the only TRUE blue note is a flatted fifth which can only be attained when playing in F. In that case, you lose the fourth. It gets even deeper.

I would just listen to a lot of music and play.

Talking of blues notes, can anybody suggest some simple blues tune I cold try in position 1 or 2

cheers

bob

Drunkards Blues is a good one to try.