The latest offering is the third Bb box I have seen on Ebay in the last few weeks...is it a trend against the key? Not in Zydeco, to be sure, but it does seem to be a "specialty" box in the Cajun world.

C is King, the key everyone needs to own first, then comes D,...Bb is next, right? I've heard mention of people playing boxes in E, and A, and even F. What's next, C# or B major ???

Bb I should think would be still a standard choice for a third box ( after C and D ).. and is a fine sounding deeper alternative..and opens up to Zydeco and playing with horns too..

Vallenato and Conjunto use Bb triple row boxes as well..

Personally I like the sound of an A box..and G is nice too but hard to manage the air and volume at times..



G.

Hey Glenn,
Just curious, why is the G box harder to manage the air and voulume at times? When ever I get my next box I am planning on getting a G box, so I can play the pull songs on D, and that is the best key for me to sing in, just like to have you 2 cents worth.
Thanks
MarkS

If I am not wrong.. the lower the key.. the larger the reeds.. the larger reeds and bigger the tone, the flabbier is the vibration..and it influences air management.

I had an EAD 4 reed triple row.. which ate air like none other.. and have played two G boxes.. ( both Martins ).. the air and volume management is not tricky..just different than a higher pitched, smaller reed box..

I feel it less so on my A box and Bb boxes.. but have noticed it particularly on the lower end of both G boxes I've played.

Hope that helps.. and am sure this will open a can of worms..

G:

I highly doubt that there is a trend against Bb.

Which keys are "king" depends on what genre you are going to play, and of course on personal preference.

I agree with you that the order of preference of keys is C, followed by D, but only in the case of Cajun music.

In zydeco, it is less clear cut, but a case can be made that Bb is the first choice. The second choice is indeterminate - it's all over the map. The key of A is popular, and so is C. It would be very difficult to say which is used more for a second key.

E, F and G accordions are out there, but very rarely used. I know of at least on prominent use of Ab, which is an accordion that Geno Delafose used to play, and maybe still does. I also know of a prominent use of B (not Bb) which is the guy that used to play with Charivari (can't remember his name right now).

But there aren't any rigid rules - get which ever key you like.

-David

Bb is a popular key. Case in point -- in this forum it seems there's a request for "a good used Bb handmade" at least once a month.

Cajun music seems more defined with the keys of C and D for sure. Beeeecausssse fiddle players do well in those keys. And everyone knows if yuh gonna play Cajun yuh better have a fiddle in da band.

There are exceptions. Marc Savoy has been known to use an Eb box. Lee Benoit has been observed using a Bb. Toups over-extends his bellows using E and F.

-- A Retrospective Into Zydeco --

I've mentioned this before -- back when Zydeco Force and Jeffery Broussard pioneered nouveau zydeco in the late 80's, borrowing heavily from the architecture that Boozoo laid down, Bb reigned superior. Case in point, Bb was used almost exclusively in the formidable development of modern zydeco by the talents of Z-Force, Beau Jocque, Keith Frank, Lil' Pookie, Step Rideau and Rosie Ledet. The exception to that list was undoubtedly Keith Frank who was quick on his feet to reform conventions by using other keys but still including the occasional Bb.

Keith introduced the idea that C was a very viable zydeco key. He also used C# to create his trademark "Soileau" sound. He forged ahead incorporating the "3-note" aka triple-row early into his repertoire, causing practically every popular zydeco artist to adopt to his abilities on the triple -- or be left behind.

While modern zydeco (post Chenier era) revived the Cajun box as the "new" sound, the 3-note, made popular by warring factions of Keith Frank and Beau Jocque, offered zydeco fans a classic connection with some old-school flavor. In this rebirth or zydeco, ol' Clifton's standard, (a piano accordion) was a rare as a duck in a tree -- mostly used by old-school artists such as Buck, Nathan, CJ, and Leon -- still keeping the classic sound (done very well I might add) clearly visible and selling in the zydeco genre.

Ironically, it was the old-fashioned single-row diatonic that created the new wave in zydeco music. The Creole artists turned the beat around, double-kicking the bass drum, and laid it on top like a train running full speed down the tracks. There was no turning back -- the tipping point had begun -- much like the introduction of Nirvana or Run DMC into mainstream music -- the influence is still very apparent today.

Bb is still out there. It's still very popular, but it isn't necessary. The only connection it shares with the whole of zydeco is the general consensus that *most* zydeco is created using a lower-keyed accordion. This broad rule applies to mostly keys C and below.

That's how I see it.

R!CK

Wow, that's a pretty impressive bit of zyde-delving Rick.

very nice and refreshingly accurate analysis Rick.. much thanks..

Out of all the names mentioned.. single row, triple and piano.. I recommend John Delafose to folks who ask me for a signature style.. ( he also experimented with different accordions.. Hohner Erica..and Hohner Corso )..but I don't know about keys..

Powerful playing.. soulful singing..

G.

Rick,

Good work on the Retrospective!

I would add one point to the single row, Bb accordion- Kieth Frank's dad, Preston.

It was Preston Frank who got an "A" accordion and brought it to Marc Savoy to have it change into a "C". The reeds of course, couldn't be tuned all the way up to C and changing them would have meant expense and a lot of work replacing the reed mounts so Marc suggested retuing it a 1/2 step up to B flat.

The rest, as they say, is history and took place before Keith was yet amoung us.

Preston deserves a lot of credit as a musician, innovator, and most of all one of the finest people I've ever known.

CM

Thanks Rick,etc...I knew I would learn something by bringing up the topic. I do think I would enjoy a Bb or even an A box. Low tuned accordions are wonderfully growly etc., driving, powerful rhythms resulting in very compelling and exciting music (of course my favorite chord on my C is the C/G--it vibrates my very bones).
I have a two row in F/Bb. The F row is an octave lower than on a regular GCF three row and with the Bb row leading the way, I find it suits me for many things. It's a box I am using to delve into Zydeco,it is tuned wetter than my Cajun C. It has been an interesting journey so far.

I enjoyed reading that...

Aw shucks, ya'll. Music is written in the key of life. It's what we are all here for, collectively. It'll keep ya young!

I agree with the comments including Preston Frank and John Delafose as pioneers and heroes in the zydeco genre. Keith Frank's biggest influence was his dad -- grandfather, mother, his entire family -- likewise with Geno. I didn't mean to diminish the impact that the Delafose legacy has on zydeco.

You could trace modern single-row zydeco back even further, really. Bois Sec, Lawrence, and Morris Ardoin.... need we reference Amedé? Look at the trendsetters that lineage sparked -- Sean, Chris, Dexter, and Marcus (just to name a few!)

So where's zydeco headed? In my opinion, to the city -- it's already there and has been for a while -- and it took the "single-note" accordion with it. It's no longer just rural community music about trail rides, dogs, mules and making love in the barn. Sure, those themes persist, but you have to look a lot harder these days. It's become more sophisticated in instrumentation and more complex in message. Some artists blur the line between zydeco and hip-hop -- it's necessary for the music to evolve into a modern consumable genre and it's going to continue to move in that direction whether you're a fan or not. Zydeco is just as much of a sponge as it is a forceful influence. The genre itself is full of motifs of "taking over", "on a mission", "rising to the top", "freeing your mind", and "changing the game". It's all about progress in the zydeco arena and the passion to wear [the] crown. If ya ain't in the game, get out the way.

There will always be room for classic zydeco and the ballsy key of B-Flat. Afterall, it's the roots that remain persistent -- underneath it all -- providing the foundation for the branches to grow and blossom. In this great future, yuh don't forget your past...

R!CK

It's amazing how often I am trying to find the time to ask something on here, and somebody else has the same question. I was wondering what started the Bb thing. Now I know.

Thanks, by the way to everyone who gave advice and opinions re my guitar question.

Rick, I took particular note of what you said about the guitar and bass swapping roles, and looked at the talents of the dramatis personnae involved ( not me - I have no talent! ).

Liz, my wife, is yer actual 'meter mistress', known to all as Mrs.Metrenome. Good on cajun, or any rhythm,( reminiscent of Cleoma Breax style ), and bass. Very straightforward root,fifth,root,fifth, plus walk ups, downs, fill ins. Pete, the guitarist has played bass in bands covering sixties/seventies chart hits,which apparently have intricate bass lines that you have to learn, and is too fussy for my liking, while playing cajun etc. So I swapped them around. And it worked. We've a long way to go yet, but the difference is noticable. Thanks again.

BJ

I am not yet a musician but I want to learn and play. I wish to have something primarily to sing with solo. So far I am more of a lyricist. It could be quite some time (if ever) before I would try playing with other musicians.
I am drawn to the one-row button instruments. I had narrowed it down to possibly the Hohner HA-114. These I have been seeing in C and in D. In fact there is one for sale not far from me that is in D. Now I have come across a mysterious one-row that is a Bb and I really love the sound and look of it.
In my musical ignorance, I am not sure of the implications of one over the other (C, D, or Bb) as far as choosing one I can sing with. If it helps, my voice falls in the alto range...so maybe one that is lower in key?
Can you offer any suggestions on the matter to educate me and help in my decision?

If you are an alto, C would be a good choice. If you are a bass/baritone, Bb would be much better.

Thanks David. In exploring more...singing along with some YouTubes...I was feeling that a G key might be most comfortable. My voice is low but definitely female and alto. Then I came across a Hohner 114-D in beautiful condition in a music store a couple of hours from me. I think it will be a fine one for me to learn and practice on and I am excited to start doing so today!

It's great that you found an HA-114. That was my first accordion, and they are good for beginners. Much better than the Hohner Arriete, which is very poor quality.

One thing to keep in mind about Cajun accordions is that even though it is tuned to a particular key (in your case D), you can play songs in more than one key. On a D accordion, you can play songs in D, which is referred to as the first position. But you can also play songs in A, which is second position, and in G which is third position. There are also some minor keys, but they are mostly related to one of the major keys. Minor keys are very rarely used.

As it turns out, most Cajun songs are played in second position, with a smaller number in first position, and many fewer in third position.

Some highly skilled players like to adapt a song to play it in a position other than the usual one. It can be tricky because some of the notes in one position do not have an equivalent note in the other position.

Have fun! Let us know how you are progressing.

Thanks for the encouragement. I have lots to learn and appreciate all these tips.
I have a couple of books and DVDs on the way also to help me get started right.
Glad I found this forum!

I forget what a wonderful reference Ann Savoy's book on Cajun Music is. Looking through it, you find songs in Am, Em, and F,but these are songs for voice. The majority are in C and G (C tuned box) and pretty much all the rest are in A and D (D tuned box). So, for old-time Cajun music, you can probably get by without a Bb box. But her book was originally published in 1984 and things are changing. It is my impression that it is with the more modern bands that you begin to see Bb and other tunings. Am I wrong? I invite clarification.

BJ ~ Best of luck with your band. There's nothing more exciting than getting a band together to create C&Z music; especially if you have had to do what I've done all these years and induct non-C&Z musicians (due to geographical situations) into the world of an accordion-driven band. The rewards are great in terms of creativity, regardless if you just play on the porch or stage.

One last thing about the B-Flat and it's cross-harp key of F. It's a popular R&B key -- that's been said here before. It goes very well with a horn section. That is probably one reason why it has infiltrated Louisiana music. As John mentions, you can probably get away with not having a Bb if you stick to Cajun music. That's mostly true, Cajun tunes do sound good with that "straight out the woods" tenor sound. It's definitely on the low-side of all things from an aural perspective regarding Cajun music. It is a very beautiful key.

Ann Savoy's book is a must-have for anyone interested in the history, preservation, and performance of Cajun music. She did an outstanding job compiling the information and there's really no other book quite like it. Additionally, there tablatures and French lyrics for several classic tunes. Plus, the photos are worth the cover price alone.

R!CK

Don't forget "Ye Yaille Chere", by Raymond Francois, or Francois Raymond.

Lots more songs, though he comes from a fiddler's perspective, and transposes lots of songs, which confused me at first. He'll say what the song was in originally, then transpose it to standard tuning.

That was an inspiring ride through zydecoevoloution.
Someday I'd like to hear your take on creole music as another
related current in South Louisiana music.

Ya neva know... but I ain't gonna quit da day J.O.B.!

R!CK

My first 1 row 4 stopper box was a Bb from Saxony

I put a lot of miles on it