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: Accordion Prices

Savoy isn't paying the $225 per bellows or the $265 plus for reeds.. he is buying direct

And keep in mind, he is NOT the sole builder of his accordeons..

Having met and spoken to Savoy.. he is making money..
and that is his business

I do not begrudge anyone a profit

But I believe in value and par

Show me a $2500 American Accordeon of the quality of a Quebec or Castagnari and I'd consider it...

Chinese accordeons don;t seem cheap they are cheap.. and most are trash no value there
but watch out it's coming

Just as Japan jkicked America's behind in the 60's and 70's with cars, and cameras, and motorcycles and musical instruments, there is Korea and now China....

America cannot continue unless

A. America stops gouging.. uit is pure greed that drives this country's business
B. It will continue when American business remembers that dealers and distributors are not their custome we the buying public are the cash cow..
C. When American business stops trying to kiss stockholders behinds and increase stock value at the custoemr's expense
D. When they go back to quality...
Example
Levis.. what trash compared to 30 years ago...
Black and Decker ... garbage
American cars junk since 72 ish
E. When we stop catering to unions..
example 30% of GM's profits go to helath care for RETIRED employees
F. When gross incompetence manages Americas government and institutions and continues pork barrelling.. examples Alaska's Hiways to nowhere
G. When the consumer is once again referred to as a customer and not an "end user" as MArtin guitar called me when one of their very expensive POS went south on me
H. When American consumers get a belly full and demand value for mopney ( I believe that to be a Brit phrase)
I. And it is NOT that the Chinses are over here husoting out busioness it is bacjk to American greed that is going to China

Rmeber this bit of propaganda:

We are going to China to get quality goods at loweer prices.. BS that is a mask for higher gross profits and of course net
Example :
I went to the hardware store 6 moths ago to get 2 metal straps called mending plates.. made by Stanley 2 in a pack $2.39 1/8thX 1X 6 "
made in MurriKA
Went there 3 days ago...bought the same thing...
hwever less than 1/8th thick... bent with the slightest pressure, porous crudely extruded and stamped crap.. price $2.69 and made in China
It is a scam.. fact is that the average landed cost of any imported good from the orient is about 1/6th the retail price.. the rest is someoens profit...

Another example the Gold Star banjo from SAGA made in China now this is the reverse of the qualioty story above but an example of how it can be done...
The owner of SAGA put out the GoldStar about 30 years ago and made in Japan and now collectible and selling for more than they sold new.. Now mmade in China and stret is about $1000 and every bit as good as a $3500
RB 250 ( if you can find one for that)
The Chinese banjo is cheaper by 2/3 the owner of SAGA is making a killing and the customer gets a very fine product

It has been suggested to SGA they get into the accordeon business
if they do
What do I care if the accordeon is made in CHina
if the quality is there and it is 1/3 the price of an American built unit

Unrealistic pricing will kill the American accordeon business...

Tom Quinn said it best....a $1200

At the present average quality I see that's about right

No denegration meant to the better builders..'
and they are entitled to whatever profit they get

But when the accordeon buyers decided to pull their heads out of the sand and explore the alternatives , get educated as to what you can get for the same money....

Back in '64 when I was destitute and my beloved 1939 MArtin was ripped off... I could naiot afford another
so I got ejukated and bought some tools and asked some questions and annoyed folks and bought some wood and started building...

And this same phenomenon has started with some adventurous folks who want to make their own accodreons.. go for it..arts is parts...

However... next four lines deleted...

I still think that a well made CAjun made 1 row four stopper from the right builder can be had for a fair price..

These are my opinions.....and you may have and are entitled to yours...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Accordion Prices

Well aware Castagnari uses tipo a mano antolellis now Voci Armoniche.. mine were old enough they predated the down grade

Still The design materials and execution IMNSHO are on par with the prices

I do not begrudge the Euro against the dollar.. I recall being in Europe in 84 when the dollars bought 4 Deutch Marks... and 5 francs

those days are gone... but I have done the math

and it does not add up

Would I buy another Castagnari one rwo yes would I buy an American built one row for the same price.. no
Would I buy a Gaillard yes.. a Van der AA yes all about the same price

Others opinions differ.. but here I differ from most, not all, other posters here, I have owned and played both plus the Quebec boxes..( not the Gaillard )
my opinion is one of hands on experience..

Glenn is a fair judge of the quality of Italian and American accordeons and of course the Euro dollar situation and I value his input

Too bad Beltrami doesn't make a 1 row 4 stopper...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Accordion Prices

What Jeff-san said... -L-

Re: Accordion Prices

Don't believe it? Check out Eastman mandolins and violins. They sound and play as good as any out there and are priced well below other fine instruments. There USA headquarters are 3 miles north of me. I have seen a few. I have a mando in my shop with a snapped peghead. The owner is itching to get it back. Her Gibson just doesn't sound as good.

Vote early, vote often and put us back on the map.

Re: Re: Accordion Prices

Somewhere along the line americans decided that they could become consumers without being producers. I guess we thought that Gates' technology would create wealth for all. Boy were we ever wrong! Now we have some of the worst health, infant mortality, life expectancy, and poverty in the industrialized world... but everyone has lots of stuff made in China.

The average age of a construction worker in the US is like 51, and finding anyone that can do or produce anything... or is even willing to work for a few hours is becoming harder & harder. At least the hillbillies aren't cruising in their monster trucks the way they used to... now they gotta be haulin' something to cover their gas.

So what does this gotta do with accordian prices? Everything!

I bet there are members of this very board that own 20+ handmade accordians. And then there are some on this board that can't afford even one. It is the way the new america works... stratification, separation, division... of the lifestyles, the races, rich vs poor, young vs old, immigrants vs natives...

If just 10 people got together and worked towards a common goal they would succeed, but that isn't gonna happen in this climate of competition and self-focus.

I bet that some of the cajun builders will sell a real working musician a box for a whole lot less than what they sell them to "collectors" and "investors" for.

Accordion Prices

Interesting observation...

This country was founded by folks with guts and visiomn

It was not a country for parasites

Work or die.. harsh and simple but true

We are a nation of cushy consuming whiners...

We value the corporation more than individuality

Yuppies yes yuppies and my generation was the first to be called such and they richly deserved it

their creed.. image before substance...

before that there was a watered down version that started in the economic boom after WWII.. keeping uop with the Joneses.. but the yuppies outdid that

The problem is that philosophy will only work for a while

Here we have a country that dotes on the likes of MArtha Stewart.. and MArtha Ray and movie stars and MAdonna and the corporate CEO's and Nashville formula performers...

what happened to the admiration for American skill craft and inginuity (sp) admiration for integrity and honesty without the slavish adoration for the monied and the famous... e admire the greedy and the "clever" the biggest cons ....
not the folks who really accomplish something worthwhile

There was a period call the Mission Period or Arts And Crafts that started in the late 1880's in England and lasted till the 30's in America.. It was a revolt against mass production and slickness
and technology..

there is a possibility this will happen again...maybe not in my lifetime

Take my home town of Pacific Grove Calif Sold our family house there after 45 years back in MArch
That was a town that was on the beach,, but humble beautiful as it was the yuppie trash had not yet emerged form their pods so that anyone could live there.. black, white, Chinese, Portuguese rich poor or in between now...
Yopu look down the street and the cheapest rig is a 3 year old Humnmer..... and the cheapest house is 750 square feet and over $500k.... why
disproportionate value

so it is absolutely whitebread top to bottom...yuppie haven..... no value and no class but money
Image before substance.. and these new folks have the audacity to call PAcific Grove "the last home town"
they are clueless.. they weren;t there when it was a real hometown... carpetbaggers all...
Tore down the 135 year old church that was an icon in the west.. tore down the 1880's public swimming pool at the ocean to build a restaurant,, ad nauseum
image building

Ahh where were we ahh yes

It is greed folks ... and myth making
but no time to go into that...

back to accordeons

Accordeons are a commodity

what one person can make another can make and sometimes even better

I don't begrudge anyone 20 accordeons... I used to have 12 now I am down to 3 and may get a 4th

It is now time for the VW or Model A of accordeons and there is a good chance it will come from the Peoples Republic and not the mother country or Murrica

The Orient Express

So true Craig........

That the Eastman corp was started by buying the book and the vidoes by Benedetto Going to China to a violin making shop who had been there for at least 4 generations taking some of the finest wood in the world.. Spruce and maple from Tibet, and absolutely kicking butt
( and some of this wood and some of these instruments have benn reputed to have come through Eastern Europe and passed of as made their)

Gibson is a very large corp it makes lots of instruments .. they have dogs and failures like anyone else

Eastman makes quite a few instruments most by hand... and like Gibson has some failures and some dogs

But having played and owned lots of Gibsons from 1915 Mandos to first year snake head to a pre war archtop to a 46 J45 and a Heritage and a 25 ball bearing banjo and so on.. the later the worse they got. Gibson is a classic example of a company living on its reputation.. and no Gibson Family member has worked for the Gibson Corp since 1908

It is my opinon Gibsons are grossly overpriced and they are known for being consistently inconsistent
Living on their own legend

I firmly believe that Eastman tries harder.

I won't currently own an Eastman as I have differences of opinon with their American management and management philosophy and some of the technical details of the instruments But would I lay out $8K or more for an L-5 when I could have the best of the Eastmans for around $2500 ?

So what if Eastman or another company with talented builders decided to go for it, accordeon Central
With that absolutely killer maple and spruce and high quality bits and pieces..and skilled instrument making crafstmen and women ...watch out

Read the other discussion group posts about Gibson, their quality or lack of same their abysmal (sp) "customer service' their grandstanding publically on banjo and manadolin forums when they help somebody who was blown out by several dealers and by their own warranty dept..... instead of just shutting up and fixing one of their famous failures without the fanfare .. as in one of their managers who often posts there.. call me direct and I'll get it handled for you.. I have clout.. see me help opyu I am good guy... .. anyone with one of their failures should be able to walk into a dealership or send the instrument to Gibson and have it fixed without the hassle..

It is Gibson ( and other American instrument manufacturers) that are smug and arrogant , greedy and blind...and that is what will be their undoing
( unless of course they continue to buy their competition and close them)


I am not advocating Chinese products.. I'd rather see instruments made in America and fairly priced

And I have an idea......

Re: The Orient Express

When the string instrument companies first started producing in China the results were pretty gastly for a while. They still are for many of the mass production musical instrument companies over there. (Stateside "set up" still means a lot, especially with the fiddles.)
I imagine the name on a company's lable got changed as employees knowledge of the craft improved.

In the end I don't think Eastmen and the other China based companies are going to continue producing inexpensive products in China. At some point their employees are going to demand a healthy work place and a pay check that can afford them their own house, car, health insurance and education for their children through college.
Yeah, the American dream.

And when that happens I imagine Eastman and the rest will pull up stakes and move production to another less expensive developing nation's sweat shops.

Re: Re: The Orient Express

If the Eastman employees wanted their salary doubled this would increase the price by about $200 US by the time every one decided to take their mark up

And India is the next great manufacturing frontier.. in many areas cheaper than China

Spanish guitar makers are now setting up on the south west coast of India...



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