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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

Look up the definition of "bashing"

Bashing by definition includes and intent to do harm

And one more time someone attempts to escalate what was a simple voicing of opinions..

It would be wise to chioose words more carefully.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

There were some exaggerated things said (in those threads) about the PLBs -- but it was certainly subjective.

So is this to say we aren't supposed to debate what we like or don't -- or question a particular artist or band? Quite honestly, I like it when someone has the nerve to speak thier mind here -- whether I agree with them or not. Moreover, I like to see us debate without going totally caustic on each other. We did that and it was a lot of fun and we all learned a lot.

So there's a few folks here that don't really dig the PLBs. I believe we are talking about the minority of folks here. I'll tell you this, after last week, we all know a lot more about them other than a youtube video and the track listing of their 2 CDs.

I think it's all good, especially from a kool-aid drinker's perspective. Jamey really said it right. I may not be considered an expert on Cajun music in the eyes of someone from Acadiana, but I know what it is like to promote Louisiana music on the radio for 18 years and I know what it's like to try to keep together a band for nearly 15 years in a huge city that has very little soul and awareness of the the enlightenment that Acadian music has to offer. It's been a tough battle while feeling as though you're the only person attempting to create a scene in a metro area of 8 million people. So I may not be an expert -- but I'm an expert in knowing what I like.

From an artist/performer perspective, I can see confronting your critics to provide answers to their questions or to try to understand the source of their criticism. But if most of your critics number less than half a dozen, don't live in your city -- much less your state, and can't hold a candle to your success -- why bother? I've never seen "Bravenet Accordion Board" quoted as a valid review source for any artist.

Maybe things are changing?

R!CK

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

This person can't be Marc Savoy's kid.

Probably one of the joksters whom patrol this board and others.

Could be his sister( whom post occasionaly on this board) whom alerted him that they were some serious "trashing" aginst him.

But, I didn't see any, other then some folks with different point de vue.

And I can't believe that an artist of his stature and experience could be "bothered" by some comments on this board.

I mean this is a seasonned performing artist, weaned and primed and counselled by very experienced professionals like his mom and dad, and I can't believe that they didn't instill in him some elements of toughness and wiseness to guard him against the some obstacles in life.

I can't think of a veteran of so many public performances being "offended" by some on this board, it sounds " cry baby" like.

And like you say " why bother".


So,this person is not W. Savoy, he is an imposter.

Can't be the real thing.

Tough and hard and wise like his dad.

He is a "jokster" my friend.

C.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

Time to move on ................

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

I guess for me, the big question is "How does Wilson feel about mitered corners?"

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

I'm also sick of statements about how "wonderfully made" Castagnari accordions are...so what! This site is about "CAJUN ACCORDIONS"...right!

Response to thread creep

To quote from the very first line on this site.. the line above the photo

"Welcome to old and new friends who are interested in discussing Cajun and "other" diatonic accordions"

No you are not right according to the site introduction.

Who said Castagnaris were "wonderfully made".
The quotes around that make it as though it was in fact a lifted quote... not from me..
state your source...

However, since you mentioned it.. they are very fine accordeons. The air lever placement sucks... other than that... nice units.

And isn't it interesting those that make these statements have never played them aside from looking at someone else playing a Castagnari Tommy 2 row on the streets of Austin..

So you stole the thread .. ...nice job.
What was the purpose in that ?

Not only is it not ok to have an opposing opinion in this group, it seems that it is not ok to have an opinion at all.

And all this furor over someone who may or may not be Wilson Savoy chastising those who did not care for the video... mis characterizing and misinforming in a possible attempt at villifying those that didn't like a video to create sympathy for himself.

And all this from a supposed first time visitor and poster.. saying that criticism is not appropriate on this discussion group.. Pompous and arrogant, and way off base.


It is also my observation that the old adage

"he leans the way the wind blew last" is alive and well.

I mean no disrespect to anyone, but slamming those that don't agree with you with blatantly false and inflammatory statements is not something that should be accepted without serious rebuttal.

Re: Response to thread creep

Correct, I shouldn't talk about things I know little or nothing about. As far as stealing the thread is concerned, you give me too much credit.

Re: Re: Response to thread creep

John,

With all due respect.. and not to single you out.. but your response is typical of something that happemns with frequency..

misquotes escalation implication

I did NOT say "stealing" I said "creep"
2 entirely different things

Creep is a mild "offense" stealing' is not good

Your implication by typing "stealing" was that I had actually accused you of something I did not

Fly specs out of the pepper.. maybe

and as minor an even that this might be.. I see this time and again

and in particular the Opening post of this thread by "Wilson Savoy"

Thank you for illustrating this John

Again.. no ill will... just taking advantage of an opportunity.

Correction/Apology/

Correction and an apology

I did say you "stole " the thread

and you did

all other comments I made in the last post stand

Sorry about that... : )

Re: Correction/Apology/

I feel there was no intention to offend from either side. Let's do as our mommas told us, Play Nice.

Re: Re: Correction/Apology/

Back around 54 my mother weas called in for a meeting with my grade school teacher

Let's just say the phrase

Does not play well with others..

Was coined that day : )

Re: To set the records...

Self absorbed hate mongering drivel.

A mature professional would not have responded with that whining. What incredible arrogance.

I agree with Claude.. a fraud

But in the off chance you are the real deal.. you sunk a few more notches beyond that lackluster performance

This message was heavily edited .

Re: Re: To set the records...

Jeff and Claude, I disagree with your (in my opinion rather mean-spirited) assessment of Wilson’s reply. I don’t think it’s fraudulent, I think it’s honest and heartfelt and I think it took some courage to post it. Some of it is very perceptive, in fact. I don’t think he’s whining at all. Good for you Wilson!
You two not only criticize him (in fact, I think you insult him) but then you mock him for “sinking” to reply to the criticism. Is that fair, or is that like the nine-year-old bully who tries to hurt someone and then makes fun of them when they say “ouch”? Claude even goes so far as to drag Wilson’s sister and father into the discussion. That’s a low blow. If you really think the poster is an imposter, as you claim, why would you bring them into it? If you think this is Wilson, please leave his family out of it.
In my opinion, the most intelligent and sensitive posting in all of this was Chris Miller’s a while back—I have a lot of respect for him saying what he did!
Best wishes and happy holidays to all,
Claude

Re: Re: Re: To set the records...

There's one thing about this whole affair that strikes me as funny...just not "ha ha" funny:

The attitude that Cajun musicians should set themselves apart from their fans and should be indifferent to criticism is absurd. Part of the attraction of folk music is that it and its creators are accessible. Anyone who thinks these musicians shouldn't care is totally missing the point of Cajun and Zydeco.

If you want to listen to an artist who doesn't care about anything but your money, buy something by mainstream artists out of Hollywood or Nashville. If you want to be part of something, quit trying to set yourself above it and join in.

It's a pleasure to be able to say that I've never met a Cajun or Zydeco musician who snubbed his or her fans. And I've never heard one of them say "Boy, you sure suck" when listening to a newbie.

Whether it's Wilson Savoy this time, Travis Matte a few months back, or Jude Moreau somewhere in between, these folk always offer thoughtful insight and constructive criticism.

I wish they'd spend more time on this board, but I'm beginning to understand why they don't.

Re: To set the records...

Well said, Wilson.

peace
Griff

Totally agree with Wil

There was some really harsh stuff said on this forum about the Pine Leaf Boys... especially from that soundhound character. You don't say s-hit like that people's music. Especially about a band that knows there music, way better than that turkey ever will.

I'm behind you Wil

Re: Totally agree with Wil

It seems like anytime someone doesn't agree with the music of a prominent Louisiana artist or band, we have a meltdown on this board and end up throwing barbs at each other. Then, the artist actually shows up here to set the record straight.

I think it underscores that the artist(s) do care -- and are accessible (as noted in the previous post). I agree that I've never been snubbed by any LA artists -- as a matter of fact, they've only encouraged and inspired me. I've never met Wilson in person, but I've bought his music and videos directly from him and have directed many people for the past 2 years to his websites (Almenapictures and pineleafboys.com) via the links page on my personal website.

Posting anything on this forum can be misconstrued. Soundhound definitely pulled back the curtain and showed some cajones when he knew that most Braves had a positive opinion of the PLBs. Maybe he just had heard enough about them and just snapped? I dunno... What I do know about him is he listens to more than just the accordion performance. That, to me, is refreshing. He also had an opposing view, albeit inflammatory -- it could've been a lot less pointed. But he wrote it and posted it. Maybe he was looking for a bonfire? I think there's room for opposing views here -- and not everyone writes the same way, nor asks themselves what sort of atomic reaction is going to result by clicking "post message." I'm just thankful that we still have this board to exchange thoughts and ideas -- remember Joanie's Rule of Thumb.

The fact is; it's done. We've all rehashed it over and over and as it turns out, he ended up liking the Pine Leaf Boys Two Step (minus the fiddle). Personally, I like Cedric's fiddle and admire the fact that he is connected with an otherwise white band and admired by a predominantly white audience. I wish more of the Creole audience would connect with what he's doing with the PLBs. It's truly huge, imho.

Another fact is; the Pine Leaf Boys are top in their game -- whether you're a fan or not. They've secured success and fans by embracing traditional music, injecting it with a shot of rock and roll (hence the Beatles reference from Soundhound), diversifying their lineup thanks to Cedric, and having some on-stage panache to attract a young crowd that likes to party, attracting the girls, guys, and making the bartenders and club-owners happy. Wilson also integrates some boogie woogie keys into the mix, which may disappoint hardcore Cajun traditionalist, but the last time I checked, those same people love swamp pop which features a lot of piano and a lot of horns. Additionally, Marcia Ball has been known to feature tunes with a zydeco groove and it's never pee'd-off any of her fans.

So you don't have to like the PLBs, nor do you have to dislike them. They are going to continue to do their thing and win over more fans than they lose. And until we get to the level of success they've garnered, we will continue to drop into this forum and pick stuff apart -- sometimes with a microscope, sometimes with humor, sometimes with insightful experience, and sometimes with brutal honesty or opinions. Some of us will learn more about music and people, some more about the accordion and performing -- but in the big picture, we all will learn more about ourselves.

That's my chicken soup,

R!CK

Partially agree

Intersting post

Following one of your comments and an earlier observation of my own

I think the fiddler would be better off in furthering his carreer by going elsewhere...
in my book he was the talent in the group and holding back

I did not like the "tone" of his violin but that could have been the video.. but his playing was excellent

I think he has great potential as do the rest of them

I just don't think the soup called PLB works as well as it could

Re: Re: Totally agree with Wil

I know Marcia Ball personally (pta parents at the same school). Cajun music is a big influence on her. I'll have to ask her next time I see her, but I would bet she is a fan of the PLBs

The Full Monty

Who is angry.. is that your assessment..angry..? seems only you and your friend are "angry"

NArrow because they did not like that particular video.. that is a stretch

So are you sayiing that those who stated their opinions about your video are weekend visitors to LA... that you cannot know...

Who "made fun" of anything...? no one made "fun" of anything... a few comments about that particular video is not making fun...

What is cruel about honesty when there was no intent to injure or harm.. this was a discussion between posters ofn this discussion group only.. and in my opinion not at all "terribly cruel".. honest yes

"These people sicken me and they have no place here"
Oh ok you a first time visitor with one post can dictate to folks who have been here for a long time.. that "they have no place here"
Arrogant and taking libeties not afforded a one time first time poster.

"I don't go all over the internet and yak to strangers about how much I hate everything"
Couple points.. nobody not one person except you uused the word "hate" that is escalating something that simply did not happen.
No one went "all over the internet" they posted their comments here to a small group.
Strangers.. we not have all met each other.. but we have "conversed" back and forth for a long time some of us Years.. seems you are the only stranger here.

Please... "shut up for a minute" sorry pal you don't have the horsepower to say that to anyone, your tone is absulutley uncalled for and offensive.


"Listen to what the music is saying" I tried.. i couldn;t get beyond the perfomance.. and what was it you were "trying to say" in that video. ?

"And how DARE they judge people by the music they play."
The people weren't being judged as individuals.. ( couln;t.. don;t know uyou) but they were judging the performance. And the "DARE" becasue the video was out there and therefore a public performance.. don't want to be judged.. don;t play in public. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion.. The Bill of rights guranteed that.

I did not think "less" of any of the performners because of that video.. I do think less of you for your attack on honest criticism and arrogance in your post..

"what fools do not understand" one more time.. who the hell do you thibnk you are.. calling people fools
because they do not have your point of view.
Or because they are not priviledges to information that you may have.. isn;t there a better way to have said this..

As to comparing one band or musician to another and having a preference.. you are now saying that is not ok..

Under a microscope... did not need a microscope to see or hear or make a judgement about that video.

"Reading most of the entries on this website make me upset and my hand tremble to read the way people respond to music.
No one responded to "music" in general.. only that video.

"Love" strong word.. I reserve that for a very few people in my life.. however you are welcome to spread yours around
And of course that paragraph was to get folks to be in sympathy with you cause your the good guy.
So what does that have to do with the posts on your video, ?

No one "talked bad" about their friends.. they made comments about a lackluster video..
here again you are attempting to villify people who had some honest opinions about one less than stellar performance.

"My prasises to everyone who support all our friends"
No one was talking about anything but that video and that band.. you are widening the arena which is false and unfair.

"Stop bickering" who is bickeing.. it was an honest discussion til you came along.

"And defend our names" WTF ? Give it a break..
defend your names as if your name was at issue.. the performance was boring..
So who was slamming your "name" and your friends..
absolutely no one.

I said it before I'll say it again

The video was one performance..
It was boring
no fire

In another format maybe but that just didn;t get it

And based on that video no interst in the Pine Leaf Boys

And that is my opinion and I have a right to voice it inspite of your whining and making a mountain out of a mole hill and trying to get everyone on your side with all the little ( though transparent and clumsy) tricks of well let's just call it "debate"

A mature professional would not have responded as your did. MAybe bite the bullet and go on.

But you have absloutley no right to twist and warp the discussion into something that it was not...and to
create dissention amiong the ranks ... we all had differing opinions and voiced them

we all have our favorite musicians and to me that video doesn;t even come close

As to music not being a contest

May I suggest you spend soem time delvibng into a basic history of music...
though a modern movie prodcution take a look at AMADEAUS if you don't think there were contests and rivalries in music.. that is historical

Youi may want to stick your head in the sand and not believe it but it is older than the proverbial dirst

Your comments were offensive and "mean spirited"
and the only person to use the word "hate" was you.

Nice try no cigar for either the video or your comments

and I still don't believe that poster is genuine

if so.. I really feel sorry for your limited view and capacity and lack of simple graciousness.

Again just my opinions under the umbrella of free speech ...

just pointing out... The Emperors New Clothes...

Re: The Full Monty

Ah, Christmas......Peace on Earth & Good Will to All Men.

Re: The Full Monty

When I read the post purporting to be from Wilson Savoy I was at first taken aback. Sometimes I know I am a little outspoken, but rarely do I say anything in order to hurt someone's feelings or upset them. I felt bad, and sat back expecting the flaming pile-on that posters such as "David" and "Jim P" hope to get started.

My biggest problem with the post was it's obvious authenticity... clearly authored by a generational Louisiana native (though not necessarily Savoy) who speaks in the most elite Louisiana manner, and who feels empowered for some unknown reason to spout-off the "playbook" and "rules of engagement with outsiders" for all of cajundom.

But I am glad to say that the good folks on this board were not buying into that particular "circle the wagons" mentality... even when the incendiary post was phrased in that cute neo-colonial cajunspeak. We are thoughtful and literate adults here, and don't need to apologize to anyone for our opinions.

I think those who post on this board (most anyway) conduct themselves honorably and with a high level of empathy. I personally have received goodwill, encouragement and thoughtful advice from other members of this board. Few of us act like experts on anything, but speak enthusiastically while sharing those things that we feel we know something about.

In all honesty, I thought my questions and comments on the PLB performances might lead to an unveiling of some terrific music of which I was at the time unaware, but interested in learning about.

While I respect and appreciate Jeff's outrage over the condescension and sly maliciousness of the (purported) Savoy post... I think he is taking the poster a little too hard to task. Who among us has not flamed on a message board and then regretted it? The poster has gone silent... let's hope that we have given him something worthy of his consideration, and can let it pass.

So, the message is to NOT try and control what is said about anyone's friends... what is more important is that we learn to control our own devils.

Video Flambee

I agree with your post with one major exception
"outrage"
not Outrage or any kind of rage

just plain old fashioned disgusted with feigned
credentials, feigned lingo, feigned hurt, feigned
cultural offense.. ad nauseum.

Offended with the tone starting with the Topic line..

Talk about over reaction.. the person who started this thread.. interloper, carpet bagger or imposter one of the three..

And the "awe" tism I mean geez
butt kissing a phantom... c,mon

I have never been in awe of fame
and in particular this case where a gnome comes out of nowhere and proceeds to tell you all how to behave

I am in awe of excellence , not fame
and that performance was not excellence IMNSHO

Set what .. the "record" straight

what record

you're batting zero

Sucking up pablum is not in my job description..
exposing BS is ...

And as to the totality of your post, soundhound,
you were gracious and polite.. and underplaying the obvious..good job !

Interesting that you suggested the original poster "flamed" .. just an observation..

We may have given him something worthy however I am not convinced that he is "worthy"

My ,this was fun.....


I do feel bad for the poster "Wilson Savoy" cause he obviously doesn't get it

and what's worse.. that person may be a "mole"

Re: Video Flambee

I've been monitoring this forum for a while ..... what a bunch of idiots are posting here. Luckily there are still a few well meaning players and makers who stick to what this forum is about: accordions, one-row melodeons cajun style, or Deutsche Harmonika as the original name once was. But alas, there's less and less of that stuff. More and more idiots take over.
And then to think Wilson Savoy (and what a great musician he is, and worthwhile band the Pine Leaf Boys are) even takes the time to reply and withstand the tidal wave of insults and ignorancies going on here. Some of you posters should really be ashamed of yourselves ... Clean up your act or get lost?

Re: Re: Video Flambee

Oliver, you are free to stay, free to go, free to post, free to monitor.
But keep enough time to play, specially if you have a French accordion, b'cause that's even more important.

Gus, fool on the dyke

Surmise

Surmise .. the person who posted was not "Wilson Savoy"

Why?

First a "friend" advised him of the existence of this group and the topic of PLB's video.. why would he need that when another Savoy already posts here?
A clumsy diversion.

The language and style, as identified by someone else, indicates the person was probably Cajun.

The language and style seems familiar.

The language and style does not appear to have been written by a man.

Draw your own conclusion.

Could be wrong.. but one thing is certain..."Wilson Savoy" fired and ran ...

I believe someone who posts, flames and disappears is called a troll? Or is my understanding of that term incorrect.

Perhaps the person who identified themselves as "Wilson Savoy" should have read the preamble and stuck to the purpose of this group instead of enciting the group to division; and the one person responsible for a conitnuation and escalation of what started out to be a civil discussion of perference.

Last word

I just wanted the last word on this.

peace,
Griff

Re: To set the records...

I have always had one philosophy when it came to hosting my show...."By a cajun for the cajuns". I dont really care what anyone who is not cajun thinks about cajun music or our culture. I am not in the business of converting anyone..but inspiring everyone who is cajun. I want all the young cajuns to know they can be proud to be a cajun. No generation before us has ever stood up to say this. Let us be the first. As always ..."Let us before we die gather up our heritage and offer it to our children".



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