As in the past:

observations, advice, pointing out alternatives , stating facts have no place on a mutual admiration society discussion group

At no time have I ever denegrated Cajun accordions. pointing out anomalies, absolutely;...
but that is criticism. .. and criticism can lead to improvements and change...criticism can be positive;
take the time to look up the definition of criticism... available on line in English or French


It is still sheer unadulterated idiocy that a warranty might be violated by the use of stops..
that is not a criticism of an individual but of the idea, the notion the act...stoopid.. no maker in my experience has ever reccomended this..
would you buy a box from this maker..
need a smiley : ) ,, now is that better ?

Please don't suggest that it is personal as it is not..
I have no familiarity of the persons involved

Courtesy and etiquette.. surely you jest
accusing others of something they aren't doing,
that at minimum is rude...fa,sely accusatory, and
either ignorant, or there is a poorly masked agenda..

Posting something that others don't dare post in public but talk about in private.. guilty as charged

In the past I have made some statements that were considered blasphemous...blasted by some of the members here... at a later date the same exact observations were made by one of the "chosen few".. and no critism but praise and lengthy discussions..

"outsider" posts... bad...
"insider" posts (the same thing)... good...
this is a matter of repeated record...

No offense to Tom Quinn.. have become (cyber ) friends over the years
but where is the retort to some of his comments.. ?
I suggest some are intimidated by him
Difference here is I respect his comments but not intmidated by them.. his comments have value..
but few have the guts to honor that value with a reply.. instead cowardly silence..(opinion al;ert)



Ok you succeeded
in making this an "exclusive" group rather than an inclusive one..
and that will assure it of expanding its knowledge and scope and membership...
keep out the riff raff and non believers..
certainly keeps the gene pool pure...


Keep in mind

A "Cajun" accordeon by definition is an accordeon made by a "Cajun"

all else are 1 row, 4 reed, four stop, 2 bass, bellows driven, diatonic , bisonoric aerophones, sometimes called accordeons or melodeons,
invented by a Romanian emigrant to Austria around 1829.

Some time sit back, curb your bias... and just
take a look at what posts/posters over the years were informative and beneficial
And then look at all the "me too"
and "look at me" pablum
while that is wonderfully touchy feeling it is also fluff
I handle fluff well
I don't handle misinformation and BS well


So eat a little XXXX
be a little introspective
and get over the xenophobia

Thank you. Not only for putting me in my place, but for also being so eager to illustrate my point. I'll go eat a little ****, now.

Ganey, why do we post? The music,the music, the music. We are in love with it and addicted to it. We love cajun, creole, and other accordion music. We search everywhere for information and styles and bits of knowledge. I know I have learned an awful lot from this forum and the knowledgable folks and know I would hate to see all this lost. I am glad to see the openness and honesty and disagreement. For myself, I always reserve the right to get smarter. Sometimes some of the post may seem irreverant but this is all part of dealing with words rather than really knowing the person. So I pick out the gems and hopefully offer a few and let others deal with the ego thing. I just love the music and a vibrating accordion.

Exactly! The Music is King of All!
The instruments are just tools to make it.

Dear Jeff

You have had the effect of generating your share of discord on this board. When you call a person stupid you are not offering an observation , stimulating debate or promoting critical awareness, you are stating your opposing opinion via an insulting value judgement .
If you possess an degree of higher knowledge in a particular area, no problem: why not exercise a little tact and humility and "advance the debate" in a less offensive tone?.
Many participants on the board also have a great deal of knowledge, but are able to convey it in a straightforward way.
You may be erudite in certain areas, but your interpersonal communication strategies are in serious need of work .
You could also generate more positivity around the music discussion but not couching your remarks in the ironic and sarcastic tone of most of the previous post.
Hope this helps!

Ganey,
I understand what you are saying, but there are facts about the use of the stops on accordions that were ridiculously ignored by the builder in question. Thousands of accordions were made with stops by the German accordion industry, thousands more by the Italians, and these stops were meant to be used by the players, not just by the tuners. I respect Larry Miller's education and his past career as a teacher (I am also a teacher) but I also think that it is important to remember that he was self-taught as an accordion builder, and that he had no education in accordion construction compared to what is common, for instance, in Italy among the individuals who design and build accordions. So strictly speaking, while he is educated, this education has nothing to do with accordions. Nothing wrong with that, of course -- Bertrand Gaillard builds what are probably the finest accordions in the world, and he is also self-taught (although he was a trained cabinetmaker, which must have helped him quite a bit, probably more than a teaching certificate in math?). But IF Gaillard told me that the air button was just to let air out of the bellows when the player is finished with a song and needs to close the bellows, I would chuckle about that. I'm sorry that you would think that this is rude. I'm wouldn't necessarily call someone like that an idiot, but they are certainly ignorant of the workings of an accordion.
By the way, I'm certain that Monsieur Gaillard would never say something as absurd as that, or to write a document indicating that the warranty would be voided if the stops were used by the player.
It is quite possible that the stops on Larry's accordions are not capable of remaining airtight if they are frequently used, and that he became frustrated with the frequent repairs of instruments that were returned to him with loose stops, but that is more of a commentary on the quality of his design. But how much can one expect -- they are homemade instruments, and they sold like hotcakes.
And by the way, Jeff's post didn't just prove your point, you also proved his.
-Andy, whose Mélodie's stops are still airtight after hundreds of times up and down, and who fondly recalls the smoothness of the stops on the little Castagnari.

Have any of the 6 builders whom Ganey mentioned received any instruction in accordion building?
I believe that there is nothing wrong with being self-taught -- it can be an asset when it is combined with the right attitude and profound openness toward the unknown -- I know one of these 6 builders exhibits these positive traits, and they have paid off in dividends in the quality of his boxes. Cheers!
-Andy

I think all of the current builders are open and receptive to ideas and experimenting; however none will stand for being called idiotic or stupid.

Andy,
I agree with everything you said. If you have followed the post, I also stated that I use my stops. I know what they are for. I suspect you also hit the nail on the head when you offered a possible reason for such a statement being made. The particular topic at hand is the the issue. This same sort of thing occurs on every thread that comes about. You presented your information in a positive manner and did not resort to calling people outright idiots or stupid.

I, too, have learned a great deal from information provided by yourself, Tom Quinn, John Everett, and yes, Jeff Hildreth. I do not believe that his method of delivery is appropriate. I suspect that if Mr. Hildreth offered up pics of an accordion he has built, a piece of furniture, or a recording of himself playing Cajun music on a Cajun accordion, he would no doubt get constructive positive criticism. I highly doubt that his character, or intelligence would be attacked.

Ganey ~ and others that feel the same way...

First of all, we need you all. Pro opinions and con. Pro opinions to toss your support at and con opinions to debate. It's a beautiful thing, really. There's nothing better than a good debate; and the only way that will happen is if you are provided with some opposing viewpoint.

If you truly enjoy this message board, then there's something that keeps drawing you back -- and that's the opportunity to put in your qualified opinion. If you've found that you've stopped posting a couple of times, but have always read the threads, that's cool, too!

But the fact is, you've read the post -- for better or worse. If you like answering questions that are specific to playing the accordion, sharing stories about growing up in Louisiana and offering opinions on different topics, you are a critical thinker and an extremely important contributor to this board.

Like you, I often think critically before I click the post message button since I know more than often, the way I would phrase things vocally, gets lost in the mundane world of screen text. That's why I instate the use of many emoticons! Check this out...



That's how I feel!

Kinda weird, eh?

BUT, the fact is, don't ever feel compromised in any way to express your opinion here -- in concert or contrary . You're a well-respected household name in this forum, speaking for myself, of course.

I'll continue to offer sage, homegrown advice with the typical unconventional spin -- just to keep the weirdos happy!

U B U... cuz we like the Ganey Viewpoint! F M all mon ami!


R!CK

Ganey,
there are worse things in Newspapers and on tv than sometimes written on the board. In all cases, we can zapp. People forget very quick.
Sometimes jokes are not always understood (you remember yours about a builder?).
Sometimes people give good inside information (about the Lake Charles builders, remember?)
Sometimes it is just not worth discussing for some(mittered corners) but others like to. No problem, Zapp.
Of course there's a lot of people that are not from LA contributing, but they also try to keep the music alive. (about food, that's another discussion...) And therefore they like the contribution from people like you, and Rick (no, he's from TX).

Different is when people try to damage somebody (also happens, but tells more about the poster than the subject, right?). Or publish info that shouldn't be published.

Gus

There is a lot of good information here. There are also a wide variety of personality types but with a common interest. I think of a board like this a like a company picnic a social setting with diverse people discussing a variety of things but together with a common thread. The problem with this picinic, is things can be said that would only be whispered elsewhere. It's easy to be misread or misunderstood. Iy's easy to rake things personal. It's easy to sound like a know it all and just as easily to sound like a know nothing. What's missing, is the face to face, the instant give and take of conversarion. I have no doubt the flavor of discussions would be a little different. So I kep in mind when someone comes across professorial complete with an elbow patch on the sweater, I realize he could just as easily be sitting in a dark room in yesterday;s underwear. When someone comes and goes on this board solely to attack someone personally, I realize that if he's ignored, hell go away.I also realize, that the keyboard has power, but more often than not, none of us has mastered it to the level of face to face conversation. Lastly, I realize that probably some people that I get along with via the net, I might not get along with in the real world just as people I'm not exacrly enthralled with could be quite a good friend in the real world.
I think this board has done pretty good at maintaining focus and decorum, especially compared to other boards. This is a social setting without the face to face. The brain's got to adjust, and we have to do what sometimes isn't easy for people to do - think before you type
Happy New Year all!
Steve

that my elbow patches are lint free and my spectacles are well-polished before I post here!

I like the forum as an exchange of ideas and information spacific to the subject at hand, accordions and cajun and zydico music. Well not just those subjects but you all get my drift. When I am interested in a particular craft I like to know as much as I can about it. Be it violin repair, piano accordion repair, accordion building, cabinet making, woodcarving, stained glass, mosaics etc. That is why I had a 500 or so book library in my office at home. In that library were 6 or 8 books on accordion history and development that had taken me years to find. I mention this to make a point that myself and others here on this forum are information gathers. This is the way I learn. BTW I am now reading about moonshine stills. I just got to learn more about the pathos, humor and mountain spirits and people of north Georgia.

Hey John,
There is some pretty good stuff about moonshining (and hiding stills -- very funny stuff) in the early Foxfire books, maybe vol. 1 or 2.
Your openness and curiosity to learn is exactly what I was talking about -- I think that it can be seen, felt, and heard in the accordions that you build, and it is obvious in the way you handle outside-the-box (sorry for the pun) topics, like the one about the bellows pins.
-Andy

Hi Andy

I have this curiosity about things and people that leads me on long (mind) trips sometimes and of coarse it follows me when we travel. I am reading a book by Joseph Earl Dabney titled Mountain Spirits and find that mountain people went through a lot of the same things cajuns went through and through it all have kept a sense of humor about life. I will also look up the books you mentioned.

I think that building (cajun) accordions, the one row boxes, is coming to a cross roads and I believe that you will see changes for the better in the way the boxes are built as well as the related parts, keyboards, reedblocks etc. There will be a turning away from the traditional style and perhaps follow the example of the Quebec builders. However, as good as this will be, the sound must remain cajun. Guys like yourself and others who are educated in music and intrument building can help in that transition.

John

Amen to that.

Maybe these people who complain should build their own accordions and make sure they have the German spelling, "accordeon" engraved on it.

Hi,
{Brushing off tweed jacket and making sure the elbow patches are free of lint.}
I'm sorry, but that's not the German spelling. If it appeared that way on old instruments, it's because German has a high tolerance for foreign words, among other reasons. I've seen it spelled as you wrote ("accordeon") on some vintage German instruments, but it is not a German spelling. I can't recall, but the name of the instrument might even be spelled that way on the original (German language) patent (the inventor was a non-native speaker) but that spelling did not survive as the German word.
In German, the spelling is "Akkordeon" -- and I find it necessary to also point out that a little diatonic box would not even be called an "Akkordeon" by most German speakers, but rather, a "Harmonika" or "Ziehharmonika" (among other terms). These "Harmonika" words refer to diatonic boxes, where "Akkordeon" is usually reserved for chromatic instruments, like the big chromatic button accordions or piano accordions.
Sorry, I couldn't help it.
-Andy

I am a totally isolated Cajun accordion player so this forum is my biggest source of information for the tunes, songs, playing the Cajun accordion, the Cajun culture and I could keep the list going. It would be difficult for me to learn or play with out it and I am indeed thankful for it.

I also realize that as with any forum, there's people that may say things in an unkind manner. Maybe they don't mean it that way but it many times comes across differently than perhaps they think.

If I have offended any one, then I surely apologize as I am a poor communicator. I need this forum as I havw feel in love with the accordion.



Ed ..... in South Carolina

I'm also not saying that every instrument is perfect. Lord knows, I've had my share of expensive guitars that I was ready to throw out the window. I just learned that complaining doesn't help, so I sold them to people who appreciated them and moved on.

I have found a couple things about my handmades I thought I could improve to my liking. The action wasn't to my liking on one, way too stiff, so I learned to remedy it. I didn't care for easily tarnished bass buttons on another, so I replaced them.

There are some excentricities with many builders of any kind of instrument, this should be expected as well.

Instead of trashing their art, research the instruments before you buy, and be totally sure that they are what you want.

Maybe even take a trip to Louisiana and get a feel for the accordion before you buy it.

Why do I read and post? Simple, I am interested in learning about the Cajun accordion.

If people agree with me fine, if not, that is fine also. I am a big boy and life is too short to sweat the small stuff.

I have alway felt that people make the music, good instruments just make it easier.

I hope everyone has a happy and safe New Year.

I think what keeps me looking in here, apart from what I learn,( and much more rarely, info I can contribute),is that I regard everyone who posts regularly,as my friends, including Jeff. Actually, my missus refers to you all as my imaginary friends.

Like any bunch of friends or aquaintances we all have different characters which come over in writing, albeit sometimes in ways we don't intend.

I've met, in person, some great people directly as a result of this and Tom Quinn's board, and I hope to continue to do so. So I'll keep participating and enjoying the civility and politeness of some, and the apparrent rough tongue of others, always bearing in mind that my posts can also be misconstrued.

BJ

I've met some friends from this forum, and made many other cyber friends, not to mentioned learned a hell of a lot, and even had an opportunity or two to help someone else. Those reasons make it worth coming here.

As for the not so pleasant exchanges, well, they're just letters on a screen to me, nothing more. Best thing is, noone forces me to read them or agree with them. In reality, they really are a very small part of this forum.

As some know, I am in the process of building my first accordion, and it's made me call myself an idiot several times. I highly recommend it to anyone who feels the need to critisize.

Happy New Year, and to quote Griff- "Peace".

I post here and lurk here because I learn here.

I have been reading the mail on this board since TQ started it, oh so long ago.

Monitored and posted on the 'other' board that Tommy started also.

In each instance I have found the teaching to always be above the squabbles.

I don't post here often anymore--life has begun to interfere with play at this stage--but I still find each of you to be valuable in my daily walk.

Two songs came to mind while posting this note--neither cajun tunes but noth filled with the cajun irony of pain and suffering measured against joy and vibrance. Back in the day when I was a pup, Bob Dylan had a tune called 'My Back Pages" with the line..."Oh, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now."

The other tune is CSN--"Wasted on the Way", "when you were young, did you question all the answers? Did you envy all the dancers who got what they deserved? I am older now. I have much more than I wanted, but I wish that I started long before I did. So much time to make up, everywhere you turn. Time we have wasted on the way. So much much time to make up..."

My point is--life is short. Nobody gets outta here alive....

Unless they have the peace that passes all understanding.

Thanks for teaching me. I know that I have gotten more than I have given.

Peace,
Griff