the old lady wants one to try out.is this the same case with accordions where the cheep ones dont sound the same???

The difference between a violin and a fiddle is the way you play it.

If you're playing Cajun music, you're playing a fiddle. If you're playing classical concertos, then you're playing the violin...

If you read music, it is a violin. If you do not read music it is a fiddle.

In reality fiddles are an instrument group of bowed cordaphones such as the Bass fiddle, cello, viola and violin. This also include several other ethnic instruments not seen to often in the western world.

So you can say that all violins are fiddles but not all fiddles are violins.

As to the second part of your question, yes you do get what you pay for but you need a bit of leeway.

A fine concert violin that sings to the touch of the bow, may not be the one you want to add steel strings to so you can saw out a tune around a campfire.

Fortunately, next to the Guitar the fiddle is one of the most common instruments on the used market.

Good luck

There can be one small mechanical difference, and that would be in the shape of the bridge. A flatter bridge allows you to play two strings at the same time more easily, which you would want for cajun fiddling.

Yes, cheaper ones will likely sound worse, and might have other problems, like maybe the pegs won't stay in place and hold the string in tune.

It depends on her ear. She might be able to tolerate a cheap one. However, I tend to tell people, don't spend too much money at first on a fiddle because your ear is likely to change. Trying to play a fiddle requires a lot more concentration on sound production and hearing the tone. Your brain will change over time, while trying to do this. What you might tolerate now could change.

If you can rent one for 6 months to a year, that might be optimal. If you get one for under $150, and the pegs stay stuck, and it doesn't melt your fillings when you play it, that might be a place to start. Not much cash outlay, and you might be able to give it away or sell it later on when you upgrade. Or keep it so you have one tuned up, and one tuned down. Or have a beater fiddle for camping or at the office. Or have one to thrash the **** out of the old man with. Less destructive than a frying pan, but still gets the point across.

Violin vs fiddle? Whole different question. Many a fiddle/violin forums out there address this question about once a month. However, I'll can summarize the technical info I've gathered:
- the word 'violin' and the word 'fiddle' derived from the same word 'vitula'. In Germanic languages (such as English), the word was corrupted to fiddle. In Latin languages (such as French), the word was corrupted to violin. However, both instruments are the same thing.
- given the fact that most hillbilly/bluegrass/Appalacia music during the late 1800s used the word 'fiddle', it was given more importance in spreading down in Louisiana, especially with the influence of Texas country swing music of the 30s.
- which leads us to finding people who use the term 'fiddle' playing folk type music (including Cajun music). They may even sand down the bridge, "flattening" the bridge, in order to accomplish double-stops which are more common in folk music. Some even sand down the finish of a fiddle in order to accomplish a more "old timey" sound. You may find those who use the term 'violin' playing more classical music or variants of. This comes from the origins of classical in Europe. Even klesmer and gypsy music, involving a violin, has it's roots in Europe. Even jazz, although American in origin, didn't introduce the violin until it found it's way to France in the 30s.

As far as cheap ones vs expensive ones, i've seen bad players stink on expensive ones and have seen good players sing on cheap ones. I'm sure there's several fiddle players here who want to chime in.

WF
- fiddle player

Oh, and Dwight is right on. I tell people this all the time: "don't spend too much money at first on a fiddle because your ear is likely to change. Trying to play a fiddle requires a lot more concentration on sound production and hearing the tone. Your brain will change over time, while trying to do this. What you might tolerate now could change."

Well said.
WF

For me it's the same instrument, but a fiddler change his instrument more than a violist.
Flatten the bridge ?
Steel strings ?
Other tuning pegs (sometimes)?
Different tuning (Dennis McGee uses 9 sorts ?
Hold the instrument in another way ?

I think we need some help from the string and bow guys.

Roger, Nout, Ganey, Chris HELP US ??????

No fiddlin' for me, unless it has frets on it. My limited knowledge comes from playing the mandolin.

ok, thanks but,its geting to technical. let me rephase the ????. she played the flute in school and can still play it, i do not know about her ear if she can or cant pick it up. what i do know is she is trying to play my NEW bon cajun with tabs and its ******* me off cause she can play it good.i cant have her playing it better than me!! so i got to get her something. so the ?? is if i buy her a cheap violin used to see if she can learn it.will it be the same as trying on a cheap fiddle

Fiddle = Violin. Same thing.

Answer to your question: yes!

WF

Yes.

Now, go soak from the waist down in some ice water to get your ego back in check.

Chrispy are you the same as Chris l the guy that bought Michael Tuckers box? If so what tabed songs do you have we never got an answer from Jim on whether he would tab some songs out for us. I am always lookin for tabs and I can e-mail you some if you would like. Get used to women playin better than us my wife has her own Martin and although she only picks it up couple times a month she can outplay my asss any day

yes im the one. i dont have any tabs. please email me some simple ones,ive got a evil plan i will give her the bon cajun and ill by me a falc.. i mean martin box that ways she'll never sound better!!

ok, now what do i look for in the since of loose pegs bad bridges and such. as a matter of fact i was looking on good will.com can any one tell me which one of those might be better for holding up. we are not worried about which one is better looking

Go to E-bay.
Select 'Musical Instruments'
Select 'Strings', then 'Violins'
There are listings for a gazillion new instruments,
most made in Romania or China.
Prices range from $ 199.99 to $ 399.99 for the 'better' quality. Avoid the $ 49.99 jobs. Pure junk.
Be sure that there are fine tuners for each string.
Be sure the ad says case included, bow included, shoulder rests included, spruce bridge, Ebony(right!) tuning pegs.

When you get it, hang a small loop of cord on the wall and use that to hang the fiddle from the neck scroll. Put a hat hanger next to it to hang the bow.
Don't store the fiddle or bow in the case. I don't know why, but was told by a 100 year old fiddler to do this. Something about spiders & silverfish.

Go to a music store and get the strings replaced. Do not put up with haughty sales people that think they are Paganini, but only make $8.00 per hour. Go right to the Tech.

Buy the best steel strings you can afford and have the Tech replace the old ones and tune the violin, meanwhile showing you how. If you play a C accordion and want your wife to play along with you, have it tuned down. Buy an electronic violin tuner from the haughty sale person and ask them how to use it. That way they feel useful. Buy a good rosin stick, the kind encased in a little wooden box. Also buy either a metal or rubber string bridge mute. The mute will save your marriage, but if you play the accordion every day, it probably doesn't matter anymore

When you get home, go back on the Internet and explore the gazillion web sites dedicated to learning the violin. Most are a good place to start and most are free. Learn the finger positions and then the scales by octaves. Good luck.

Way too much information!

JB

****ttt I would just let the wife play the Bon Tee hell of a lot easier

A fiddle has a "red neck" on it...lol

What ? There was no "JAZZ violin until it hit France in the 20's

NO not true...

The first Jazz violinist was an American by the name of Joe Venuti...he played with the guitarist Eddie Lang.... both were influential on the French "gypsy jazz" players and Grapelli sited Venuti as his major influence

As to fiddle and violin.. Perlman has often referred to his violin as a fiddle.

Many years ago in another life I hustled old violins... the real experts such as Nash Mondragon of Cremona Violin in San Francisco and Stevens in San Jose interchangeably called violins fiddles. Even D'Atili (sp) an internationally recognized authority on authenticating old violins ( he did some for me) often called violins fiddles.

Come to think of it, I never heard anyone say the were violining around...

Price is not always an indicator of quality

I have paid far too much for bad violins and very little for some serious prizes.

Case by case

I do not know much about fiddles, but was interested in learning so I bought one last week at a local music store for $125. With the very little knowledge that I have I think it is a great fiddle to learn on.

See link 2

Brett Thibodeaux

I started with a Palatino. Don't remember the model.

Check out some music stores near you and see if they rent. You might could rent for $10-15/month, and in a month or so find out that it's not for her, and save the extra $100.

Violin is a whole 'nuther beast, and has lots of ergonomic issues compared to an accordion.

I type sometimes without reviewing.



OK, i'll rephrase this as "there's no significant violin in jazz until Django and Stephane in the 30s." Sure Venuti played with others, some real famous, but did his style really get the recognition it was due? Not until the Hot Club was this style popular and well known. Don't you agree? Maybe that's what I meant. Either way, it's connection to the word violin is due to the jazz he's associated with, primarily Chicago and New York, not dixieland New Orleans.



However, you're technically correct. Venuti would be the founder.

WF

for a starter,
there are some pretty good solid body, electric, 5 string ones for under $200

advantage is that the volume goes down to zero

can;t say that about the acoustic ones

some of them are shaped like dollar signs

really

wacky colors

can;t remember the brand

chinese of course


wle.

and if the electronics go out, you've got nothing. I'd try to read as many reviews on those as possible.

samick is one company with them

these seem to be all about $300 though

wle

difference between violin and a fiddle?

#1 you carry a violin in a case and a fiddle in a potato sack
#2 you don't cry when someone spills beer on your fiddle

roger

wow everyone make fiddle players seem really stupid..potato sack??? really

Yeah, really. I'd love to have a potato sack. Makes me feel deprived and ****.

Think they'll leave any potatoes in that sack?

now I'm getting hungry.

I get really confused in this forum!!

Do you guys know which type of dental floss is the best to use for my bow? Dental tape, dental floss, and does it matter if it's mint?

LOL I vote for a tie for best answers between Karl and Roger but hit it right on the head who the f cares about fiddles this is the ACCORDION chat but my best laughs came from the two above mentioned nice job guys

just to let you folks know, there's also a list specific to cajun fiddlers.

See link 2.

I'm not saying it doesn't belong here, but, just further info.

My take on it as an amateur fiddler- I bought an "Ebay special" for $50.00 fully rigged. I do not vote against this because I learned the basics on it and it worked for me. I upgraded to a Gliga (Romanian) a couple years later and of course there was no comparison in quality and playability. No matter what you decide or buy, I strongly suggest that you take it strait to a luthier for a professional setup. If you live in Acadiana, Anya Burgess does this (she set mine up-very reasonable $) and she will be doing a couple more for me shortly. This makes a big difference, even on a cheapy model.

Yes, I was going to mention that too.

The type of strings matter too. Steel strings are much different from silver wrapped perlon strings. It is noticable to a novice like. Probably also a matter of auditory preference.

Wow Leslie
In all the time I have been reading these posts the phrase "auditory preference" has never come up. Leslie I like you can I mark you as a bud??? Guess the violin players have that vocab over us accordion players

Joe Venuti not "significant" ? ? ?

That's like saying Don Santiago Jimenez wasn't a significant influence on Tex Mex
or Charlie Christian on Jazz guitar or Johnny Whiznant on 3 finger style banjo ( he predated Scruggs..fact... mechanic in Florida.. beat Earl to the punch) Earl was good but not the original..
Or Iry Lejeune (sp) on Cajun accordion...


It is not a matter of personal disagreement, it is a matter of the facts and chronology. Look up the site Red Hot Jazz and see what is said about viiolinists.
Without Venuti there would not have been a Grapelli.

As a matter of taste Grapelli was ok , Venuti was THE original and raw ...I have heard modern one gypsy violinist sound like him , who can be seen on the Birelli LaGrene "Live in Vienne" dvd ( available from net flix or djangobooks.com) he plays about a half hour into the show.. big boy, pink tie, left handed.. that is the Venuti sound and attests to his enduring influence and significance. Some hot guitar and some fantastic chromatic accordion .. worth the time...

Venuti not " significant" ?
Say it ain't so ,Joe

MHO:

violin: emphasis on melody and tone quality
fiddle: empasis on rhythm, swing or groove.

Jazz violinists combine a lot of both elements.
Grapelly with more "sweetness" (tone quality) and melody in his music - I am talking about the Classic Hot Club sound - and numerous others with (even) more emphasis on "swing".
Grapelly didn't improvise half as much as Django, who really let himself carry away by the rhythm.
And Venuti was the pioneer, no doubt.

By the way: this is becoming a long thread for a Cajun Accordion Forum, or am I wrong?
From accordion to fiddle to violin to jazz... where will it all end??

It will end with Chris disowning his ol'lady when she starts playing the left hand before he does.

A violin has four strings.

A fiddle has four strangs.

sorry, that's "fo' strangs".

Also, fiddle is what you do with your zipper.

The fiddle is an instrument with for strings which is played with the aid os a hairy stick (4000 in all).
In the hands of an inexpert it is a dangerous weapon capable of causing severe hearing damage.

The violin is an instrument with four strings which is played with the aid of a hairy stick (4000 in all).
In the hands of an inexpert it is a dangerous weapon capable of causing severe hearing damage.

Ok, now I'm confused again. Is Peer also Melodoron?

Nope.

Peer=Peer
Meloderon=Ron

You both posted the exact same thing. You guys are messing with me.

actually, now I see that one of you used the word "violin", and the other used the word "fiddle", but with the same definition.

You know, you European guys should go easy on me, not get me all discombobulated. English is my first language, so I have an excuse.

! I just wanted to say that Ron's definition for fiddle could just as well be for violin.
Isn't this thread getting out of hand, and thus becoming a threat?!?

I thought fiddle talk was always welcome on here.

Just kidding.
I scratch some fiddle myself, every now and then, link #3.

Which one is Nout?

The one with the accordion.

For Nout and Ron, check out link #3.

I'll get it straight one of these days. Or not.

And Nout is very astute he is holding a MARTIN

amazing while drinkin grappa no less that stuff is evil tasting

I missed this conversation so far.
Peer and I are two different persons.
I play in a band with Nout and I do the tit fer there and play accordion in another band (link#2 and #3)
I also try to do something on the fiddle and in my hands it's dangerous for other people and when I touch a string with my left hand the whole surrounding here will be evacuated.

violin dee dee
It just ain't right



fiddle dee dee
yup that's got it

Yeahh! Pure Poetry!!

Yeah, but you can't say "There's too much sax and fiddles' on TV" either.

I heard an oldtime bluegrass fiddler say it best:
He says, if you're a sittin down its one them violins..if you're a standin up..why its a fiddle then..

and if you're running, with people after you, it's time to practice.

Well I guess we can conclude that if one enjoys poking fun at it, it is a fiddle; or a banjo or an accordion.

That is why you never hear, “That's the (insert instrument) players Porsche".

Happy tunes to all.

But you will hear:

"That's the players on the porch."