Hmmm...if you can hear a song on a CD in the key of your accordion, hum or whistle it and you also have music as a background..just don't even bother opening up the sheet music folder...get that squeezebox out and find the notes in your head and fingers.
... Stare straight ahead, turn off the TV, wait 'til all the family is out shopping or at school....then go for it. oh..and if you have a dog..give him a bone and put him out back.
After getting nowhere much for a month or two..one day you'll pick it up and it'll sorta sound right....don't know what happens in the brain but it WILL happen.

LATER..you can get some serious tuition that will take you to the next level.

Sheet music is good for if you want to learn beginner stuff like "Mary had a little lamb", but otherwise tabs are worthless for most all Cajun songs.


As Darryl pointed out, if you play enough you'll learn the songs. Simply put, if you listen to the song over and over and attempt to play it over and over...eventually you'll be able to play it. Listen to the song you are wanting to learn until you are literally almost sick of hearing it and when you go to bed you hear it in your sleep...soon after that you'll be picking out the notes on your accordion.

Hi Nout, your message was just sent off to Bletchley Park, London, for decoding.
I couldn't figure out what you were saying, but maybe those Enigma Wizards over there have a clue!!!

BTW Nice pics, especially the Scottisch poster.

(ladies under 4 feet high not admitted)

I haver never read any convincing arguments against using sheet music to play the melodeon. If the classical musical notation can be used for much more complex musics than Cajun music, why couldn't it be used for Cajun music by someone who can read this notation? It would also be a good aide-mémoire.

One of the usual arguments is that there are a lot of variants, depending on the musicians, the circumstances, etc... But why couldn't a trained musician listen to many different versions, then learn one from a score if it makes things easier for him? Learning a tune from a written version or a recorded version does not make any difference when you're familiar with the music, does it? And it does not prevent a musician from then playing that tune his own way and adding his own embellishments. Just like we write down the lyrics but also know that they can vary. There is not a rule that says that we MUST first and only listen to the singer and learn the words by heart without ever using a pen, or using someone's transcription, because that's the way it used to be done in the past.

The other argument is that the music we love must be played from the heart. I don't see why some people think that that is in contradiction to learning from a written version. Or does that mean that all classical musicians play like machines?

Christian

PS I can't read music... but I sure wish I had learned.

Just trying to understand why everybody always advises against sheet music for the accordion (whereas Raymond François' book, for instance, contains scores for the fiddle).

There can be a healthy debate regarding the pros and cons of sheet music for Cajun accordion.

But as far as it concerns Cajun accordion, any such discussion is somewhat irrelevant for the simple reason that sheet music is virtually non-existent. (There actually is some sheet music, but it is of such extremely poor quality as to be useless).

-David

David your right about there being little to none existing for Cajun music. I have been lucky enough to find teachers that can tab out a song and I record it both in real time and slower pace so that I can learn it. Each player can add the emblishments to it as you become more familiar with the song. Just works best for me.

The major problem with sheet music is that there isn't any. OK, there is some, but it stinks. To the extent that it exists, it is so oversimplified as to be essentially useless.

There is one really lame book, I think it is called "Cajun Dance Hall" - bleh. If you play what is written it sounds like elevator music - totally and completely lame.

I was at a festival once, and they had an accordion workshop. Everyone was playing the sheet music version of "J'ai passe devant ta porte". The heart and soul of the music was non-existent, it was so banal I couldn't stand to listen to it. All of the embellishments and ornamentations were lacking. There was no style or rhythmic feel or anything.

For better or worse, the only viable option is to learn by ear. Sorry.

-David

Hey yall,

Thanks for the replies. I too was about to mention that the amount of sheet music is pretty limited, atleast from what I could find.

In any case, is there a way of writting embelishments for the music? The tunes are pretty simplified from the few I could find. I'm guessing thats where personal technique and "playing around" comes in.

Thanks,
Ted

Maybe it's likely too complicated to write down exactly what notes a skilled Cajun accordionist plays, with all the improvisations, doublings and half played in between ghost notes. I know Peer did some serous attempts to analyze f.i. Eddie LeJeunes playing:



Here are the notes as Peer wrote them put in a MIDI file. Eddie's playing seems to be well analyzed, but lacking any soul of course being computerized, and it's your computers (cheap?) sound chip reproducing the sound of Peer's notation, click here to play or download it:

http://www.cajuncraze.com/Temp_Foto/Valse_Criminelle_G_© Eddie_LeJeune.MID

PS Usually when i write out an accordion tune i stick to just the basic melodic structure, also with the idea that let's say a fiddler can make any sense out of it.

- Nout

Yes, because I never attended any workshop or lesson, Cajun music was a kind of mystery to me so I tried to WRITE down what I heard for a while. This forces you to listen very carefully.
I think there is nothing wrong in imitating or copying an existing version when you are still learning. Later on you can develop your own style.

READING musical notation can be a help, but I wouldn't recommend learning Cajun music from sheet music alone!
Using notes as a reminder for yourself is a very good idea.

I may hope it is clear that I have nothing against musical notation for Cajun music, but I'm just not crazy about TAB! Musical notation explains a lot, Tab doesn't explain anything. It just shows which button to push (but not how long!), and turns you into a kind of robot. But combined with musical notation, it may be a help.

Nowadays, I tend to look mainly at the rhythmical aspect of Cajun music, because I'm convinced that most of the "mystery" lies there. Sometimes it just doesn't matter which note you play, as long as the rhythmical structure and the overall idea of the tune stays intact. That's how you get all those nice different versions.

Valse Criminelle was notated in 9/8 time and not in 3/4 time. (9 eighth notes = 3 quarter notes)
I learned that from Eric Martin's book. This way you get a better chance to write down all the intricacies of a Cajun waltz, and a better understanding of triplets.

I realize all this looks almost scientific, so I would say: forget about those music notes for now, and let's play!!

It is never too complicated to write down. You just need the right person to do it. I agree that For cajun music that is hard to fine. But it can be done.

Joel Martin is one of the best for writing out tabs for Cajun songs Also Drew Simon is very good at tabbing as well

We are playing traditional music on folk instruments. The music and the style passes from generation to generation through demonstration, listening, and, if you are in Louisiana, immersion. Any music can be written down. Jazz horn players pride themselves on their ability to transcribe complex solos by Charlie Parker or Dizzy Gillespie, although those doing the transcribing usually have some music theory training. They transcribe the solos to hone their ability to listen and understand the nuances of the soloist's style. Although you cannot really export an entire culture, we've each become fascinated with (at least) the music of SW Louisiana, to the point that we strive to play the music in a way that respects various styles that thrive in that culture. Camps like Balfa Week and Augusta are as close as many of us come to cultural immersion. They are great places to seek inspiration, to address flawed musical habits, and to have some immersion in the culture beyond seeing bands on tour and listening to recordings. Although I have standard musical training, I have not been tempted to notate Cajun or zydeco music. I have had to reboot several times over the years, reminding myself to listen without preconceptions in order to find the essence of a song, and through enough songs, of a style. Although notation could be a learning tool, I don't think it offers a shortcut to getting the music right.

What a funny tabs you use

yep

ear learning is the only way to go with any kind of folk music

it;s 99% not written down

even if it is, the written notes don;t really have the sound of the music - you still have to hear that in others and learn to put it in your own playing


wle

I have a book "O'Neills dance Music of Ireland" with 1001 tunes written down in notes. I tried several times to learn tunes just from those notes, but never succeeded, even if I have been playing Irish tunes most of my life.
It's just dead stuff, and doesn't say anything to me.
Really funny. Just a bunch of notes without any meaning.
But when I pick out a tune that I heard before, I don't have that problem. First I'm puzzling on those notes, but then there's that "aha-erlebnis", I recognize it, and it comes to life immediately.
As if you suddenly recognize an old friend. This kind of proves to me that just notes are not enough.

The work "O'Neil's Music of Ireland" in the original (green) version is known to be full of errors, especially the B parts of tunes are off quite a bit.
There is a later version, with a yellow cover which is better, but the saying is that the version below reworked by Miles Krassen is the better one:

The one and only right one to buy (?):



PS Chief O'Neil was a Chicagian police captain, who just wrote down what he thought he remembered was the right versions they say about his work.

-Nout

Yes , This is the version I have. (for fiddlers)
Krassen also put in all kinds of embellishments (Sligo Style) that O'Neill never wrote down in the original version.

After reading all this info about sheetsmusic and such I hear what everybodies saying. Peers try at writng it down don't includes the lefthandside how to explain that at the sametime? Hard to write down those suttle attacks and bobbelnotes and phraseing to. Hers what I learned alot

Sheitmusic is for fellers who ain't got a soul much less a understanding of the kind of music their trying to play. Fellers relying on sheetmusic only conect with the paper and not the people. Fellers who rely on the easel are real weasels. Fellers relying in musicbooks only confused the hooks. Fellers who's music they can only read might as well be Marcus Welby cuz they only acting in realty. Fellers using sheetmusic make me want to kick a dog and eats some glass.

Excellent point's Paul, I went on youtube today and listened to this fella that plays by sheet music and the buttons are there but the tune and melody wasn't.
Le Piquant

We all know that the learning processes vary greatly according to the individual, his brain and his previous experiences and learnings. Some people understand and do things much better if they can also have or imagine a visual representation of them... Why should a learning process be imposed by some music ayatollahs who have decided that there is only one way to reach a goal. The main thing is to reach that goal (here, to get a command of the Cajun style) and I think we should judge the result, not the way it was reached.
I'd be ready to bet that a Cajun musician does not care about that, as long as you can play with him.

Christian

Notation has helped me in the past, so nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned, but I must say I'm glad I can do without nowadays!

Peer I would venture to guess you have been playing for what about 25 yrs now?? So now adays is a long way from the day you started. I have been playing 3 yrs now so I need that paper maybe in 22 more yrs I can say I dont need it any longer either.

Might I relate a little story about something that happened while I was exhibiting my accordions at the Festival Acadiene in Lafayette a few years back. We were playing a few songs with my brother on accordion me on triangle and my brother inlaw on violin amd a friend on guitar when the middle aged lady stopped by to listen. She soon asked if she could play along and of coarse we said yes. Well she takes my brother inlaw's fiddle and starts playing. In 5 minutes she had the song down, in 10 minutes she had all the little licks down and in 15 minutes she was showing my broher inlaw some new embleshments. Now he is an accomplished fiddle player and has been playing cajun music for about 60 years. Ends up she had learned to play in school by sheet music and had been playing for the philharmonic orchestra in Houston for about 25 years. They use sheet music. So, IMHO, a little musical knowledge can't hurt. In conclusion, I think one should use every aid possible to learn to play.

This lady proves what i always felt & tried to achieve. The hardest part of learning to play any type of music on any instrument is learn to listen to the music & know and remember what's been played as good as you can. And you can develop and train a (musical) brain with the aid of software these days too. Being able to use music notation can be of some help there even ..... - Nout

Sheet music for Cajun accordion can be equated simply as this:
Reality vs. Fiction

"I just witnessed a gnarly car crash and was nearly a part of it so I'm gonna sit right down and write myself a screenplay about it so everyone will know just how gruesome what I saw was..."

What I mean is; writing can be very descriptive. You can read things and store them in your mind. But unless you witness something in-person, and play that experience over-and-over-and-over in your mind, it's just someone else's story -- not yours.

Funny how these same classic topics arise and recycle every few months. This one is definitely a candidate for a sticky post!

No disrespect to John or you, too, Nout, but while I can certainly see how a philharmonic orchestra could contain a fiddle or "violin", not to mention a half-dozen of instruments that resemble a fiddle in varying sizes; I can't, however, see one of these orchestras featuring one or more melodeons all neatly sitting in a row, with rests, turning pages, watching the conductor, and so on.

To me, the Cajun accordion is an orchestra in a box, and it takes an unchained soul -- a true individual -- not a component en masse, to learn it. I've not known anyone to stumble upon the Cajun accordion by chance, and like what they've seen and heard and immediately climb on board with being successful on it. Folks like that are a flash in the pan, and their hand-mades shall be listed for sale within a year.

What I mean is; it takes true immersion into why Cajun or zydeco music IS what it IS and why IT exists. That is a journey that starts without any instrumentation. It starts with a relationship. First is acknowledgement, then comes understanding -- then RESPECT. From there you've got to understand roots and history before ANYTHING will make any sense. Then you've got to recognize what is familiar in C/Z music -- the common structure, rhythms, and clichés. This takes a lot of study before attempting climbing onboard the courir wagon. Gotta pluck some chickens before you can make some gumbo.

Someone early on in this thread spoke of how this music is "handed down". It's true.

Praise Bob,

R!CK

Mark Twain eat your heart out. Bien did, neg.

I agree guys, it takes immersion in any folk music and culture to play it properly. The point I was trying to make is that being educated in music theory and knowing how to read music is not going to be a henderence to one learning to play cajun music. I also agree that it is not necessary to have a degree in music to learn to play but it is not going to keep you from learning either. The more you know about your selected craft, wheather it be building or playing the better off you will be.

You are correct John.
Le Piquant