Welcome to old and new friends who are interested in discussing Cajun and other diatonic accordions, along with some occasional lagniappe....
CAJUN ACCORDION DISCUSSION GROUP
I think some of the discussion Mr. Hebert brought up, while touching a few nerves for a few, has set me on another reflective moment.
Though the way he expressed his thoughts may have put off a few people, I think I understand very well what he is talking about.
Our culture, the way many of us remember it when no one cared about it, has changed like everything else does. I for one very much appreciate seeing all the interest in the youth today in the music, and I both appreciate the interest outside Acadiana, and find it interesting that so many people not only like it, but put forth a great effort to understand it.
What is a little unsettling for me is how it is packaged now. I notice it during Mardi Gras, and events like Festival Acadiens. On one hand it's great that it's still there and I fully support and appreciate that. But what I think Mr Hebert is talking about (correct me if I'm wrong Hebert), is that much of it appears a caricature of itself, kind of a shell. Much of the culture has already died (are at least very much changed), but it has been packaged to present to young folks and tourists in a way that is somewhat like taking the outwardly interesting stuff and painting a little picture with it, it has the look but not the feel. This is especially evident to me at Mardi Gras. That is what I thought when Hebert mentioned the awkwardness of it.
So what can be done about this? I don't think much, because, unfortunately for some of us, it's just things changing with the times, just as the times of my grand parents were probably a lot different that for their grandparents. The most painful thing to see die and the hardest to stop is the language. After today's 60 plus age generation is gone, so will the Cajun language in its native form.
The music is the one place I disagree with Mr. Hebert, it is alive and well in many places. I just finished a camping/hunting trip with my dad and some friends that included 2 nights of fireside Cajun music, and it felt awfully authentic to me. It's there because we choose for it to be there.
And to all you outsiders, I'll always consider you welcome, even Jamey with his funny accent and sock/glove/shoes. In many cases you folks seem to appreciate what we have more than the natives do.
So true!!
Brian as one already stated so true who cares what one wears how one looks how one dances we all love the sound of the music. We try so hard to make it sound like the old days but we are not the old ones and as they say Cajun sounds are the sounds that one puts out. Cajun is what we want to make it sound like enjoy what we put out and as Herbert once said the old players cant tell us what they feel because they just felt it and never knew how to express what they felt to others. Live with it!!!! Play what you like play what you feel and s -- w what others think
"Herbert once said the old players cant tell us what they feel because they just felt it and never knew how to express what they felt to others"
Great point and one I meant to bring up. I think we've all been disappointed when someone we respected as a player couldn't/wouldn't show us how to play. Like you said, many just play what they feel and can't show someone how, others learned the hard way and think everyone else should. The more it goes the more I think that is the best way. Most need a little guidance getting started, but a lot of those licks I think need to come by on their own, it gives the player a better feel for the music and the instrument if they've stumbled around on their own for a while.
You make some good points Bryan. I think that what is missing is the effort that we make to get the older generation involved. Almost every aspect of the packaged music coming out of Cajun country is fast, loud, and hard. If we don't want the language to die then we need to make the older generation appreciate what they have. Almost nothing is done to include them. I have brought this up before. When we see real young kids playing and singing Cajun music we praise them and think that that is wonderful. It's like cultural diversity they way I defined it in college. Come sing and dance for us, cook us your food and then go home. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here and I hope no finds this offensive but I think it is "cute" for the kids to do this but I don't think that that is going to save the language.
Le Piquant
The other thing I didn't touch on in my long winded post but wanted to, was kind of what you're touching on, Jerry. In the old days things were very layered on the totem pole. The elders were respected and the youth had to pay their dues to be included and were forced to sit on the perimeter and watch, they learned the old ways that way.
Now, in an effort to keep the kids interested in a culture they're not inclined to, they are put at the forefront, often made the centerpiece. This is a double edged sword, these days few are interested enough on their own to wait their turn and learn from the elders, but if some attention wasn't given to them they would go to something else.
A good example is the kids mardi gras. Good thing it seems at first, but more often than not its all about the kids having some fun but never learning the traditions that go with it. One thing that accidentally happened in our short lived community kids mardi gras was some kids putting some beads on an elderly lady brought tears to her eyes. I was griping because of the bead thing in a Cajun mardi gras run, but when I saw that, and the fact that the kids immediately began doing it to every old person, and a tradition was born, I changed my mind. They had just learned something valuable.
Cameron Dupuy, who has lots of attention lately for his playing, impresses me most with his respectfulness to the old masters and his desire to learn from them. That is a testament to his character, and to his parents. Cameron, lache pas ça!
Cameron has more qualities than playing an accordion. But when it comes to playing the accordion he would play it without an audience just like Austin Monceaux did. He is not out to impress or to be the center of attention and he is very humbled when he gets the attention. I think about Hunter Hayes a kid that could barely play the accordion and he was doted on like some kind of superstar. We see the same thing today with some of the other parents living their life through the promotion of their kids. I don't think that that is going to keep the culture alive. I have attended a Table Francais and have really enjoyed the little visit with the participants. After going a couple of times and playing music for them at the end I came up with the idea to bring the lyrics with me and do a sing along. Watching these older people try to read the french lyrics and sing at the same time was an interesting experment. We didn't go yesterday because we worked around the house as we had company all day today, Marc and his wife from France. So, at the next Table Francais we will read the lyrics first all together then we will sing and play the song. The point is they all enjoyed being able to do something like that for the first time in their life. We, my wife and I came up with the idea after seeing that there wasn't much organization to it. Again I think the future of the language lies in getting the older people involved now. Maybe they will find themselves talking in french when they see their friends at wohlmort or where ever.
Le Piquant
First, I agree with the comments about Cameron! Stellar young man! My girl is much the same way! She plays because she loves it and she truly wants to save our culture and carry it on! She could care less whether there is an audience to listen to her or to see her or not. She plays for the same reasons I play and that is simply because we are proud of our culture, we love it, it is in our blood, our hearts, our very souls!
Secondly, Jerry where is this Table Francais held? I'd like to come sometime.
The Table Francais is in Houma on the 1st and 3rd Saturday of the month.
Le Piquant
The only thing that is going to save the language is to use the language and to teach it in it's native form to our children and give them opportunities to use it!
Just my 2 cents....LOL
By God, I think yall've got it! I agree strongly and thank you all for putting deep thought to the seemingly more complicated side of the culture and the music and posting those thoughts on here. You have brought more light to the dark side and that's very honorable in my opinion! I am very confident that such awareness will no doubt improve yours, mine, and other's future presentations of the Cajun music.
Universal Law....What you pay attention to, you become aware of. Always!
Once you're aware of something, you suddenly have the potential to "master" it.
That's not Cajun wisdom, but wisdom none the less.
Ca c'est la verite'
Sometimes this forum gets way to deep. I moved here from Calif 9 yrs ago didnt know what the hell a Cajun was or was not. I went to a few dance halls heard the music and fell in love with the sound. I didnt know old from new or new from old. I just liked the sound and found I really could dance to the sound and looked good doing it. I then after my wife decided she wanted to learn the cajun accordion, I also decided I would like to try never having tried any musical instrument. I love the sound I love the feeling of joy it brings to me I am not the best nor will ever be the best but its the feeling it brings to me to be able to make a box that I have never known anything about make some sounds that I think sound not bad to my ear. Thats what its about we dont have to play on stage be the best just do it for enjoyment. I dont need to be better than Harry or Jerry or Chris or anyone I just want to do it for what it brings to me. End of story!!!
Great insight, Bryan. I don't think there's any worry as it relates to the "Preservationalists" of Cajun culture and music. What I see is a huge force of young folks willing and able to keep it alive.
On the other hand, there's the same amount of young ones and outsiders that present "Louisinaism" with a different style. That's the way it's always been, and that's the way it shall always be.
In 1952, Hank Williams, a guy from Alabama, made "Jambalaya" a national dish, and a vanguard song. A number one hit on the charts, co-written by Moon Mullican, a cat from Virginia. And if you break that song out, people feel like they are part of the Cajun culture, not realizing they connect through an alternate current. And Jack, that was considered "country" music. Folks didn't even bother to connect the dots because they were loving some Cajun vibes. Even back then... I'm tellin' ya. Now that song is on practically every traditional Cajun band set list -- or at least on the fingertips of every traditional Cajun accordionist because they figured they needed to learn it.
Every representative of Louisiana music and/or culture has ties to the roots in one way or another, whether they play straight-up or sideways.
The language? Yes that's in the hands of real culturalists. But, it's up to the young prodigies to embrace the effort and obligation. If they don't share in the need to keep it going, then it's a case of "you can't lead a horse to water." But again, I know there's a bunch that are thirsty. I think it's all good -- especially since there's a market to capitalize on.
R!CK
At the Ardenwood Festival out here in September, some woman was trying to get the Pine Leaf Boys to play Jambalaya before she had to leave. They didn't say no, but they kept politely putting it off.
She looked like someone who threw on her western clothes to try to fit the atmosphere, etc, and likely thought New Orleans was the purveyor of all things Cajun.
She started getting mad at the Boys, and I leaned over and said "You know, Jambalaya is not a cajun song." "I don't care." then "What do you mean?"
I just said it was written by Hank, but didn't go on to tell her that she was somewhat insulting the PLB and their music because I don't think she would have gotten it. But, without people like that buying tickets to get in, the Festival probably wouldn't be there.
I'm well aware that, even though I was born and raised deep in the bayous, and surrounded by cajun surnames, I am not authentic. And Houma was no bastion of "authentic" when it comes to the music from the plains area of La.
Even when people out here try to lay that one on me, I let them know I'm not cajun. The weakest defense I can muster to those who are of the culture is that my nieces and nephew had a cajun mom.
Still, I am bloody hell on wheels when someone starts trying to play rock and roll at some of my jams. We are lucky that there is a strong cajun/creole musical tradition in the Bay Area due to the ethnic population that moved here during the war.
And that I didn't have to learn my chops on songs like Jambalaya, or "I'm a Louisiana Man", or whatever anemic balderdash gets touted about in other parts of the country.
I remember telling some of my classmates that I was going to do a cajun music set at our reunion earlier this year, and I don't think they got what that meant. When I put some of my amateur recordings up recently, it was like "OOOOOHHHHHHH, you play the traditional stuff." Uh, well, yeah. What, you thought I was going to play "Amos Moses"?
And if ANYTHING broadcasts that I'm still an outsider, it is me trying to sound like a cajun when I sing. gawd.
However, this is the only music I play. I admit, I did not like cajun music while I was growing up. Then I started dancing to it. Then it was "Oh, it's dance music". And I've gradually tried to play closer and closer to the bone, as my limited playing skills will let me.
But I will always feel like an outsider.
Are you guys being serious? I hope this is a joke, otherwise take your ******* contest somewhere else
good man.
As "outsider" the conceptual meaning of "culture" for me always has had some nasty edges like cult, fanaticism, madness to be aware of. Developing into separatism and classification of members of a society. Things humans normally do in life to survive, reproduce and be happy, are basically the same world wide. But of course this is all done in a variety of ways. Some of those ways i really enjoy personally and can relate to, like honest music that lies close to the soul.
When something "cultural" like f.i. Cajun music gets more popular, more and more people pick it up, and it tends to change. Especially when commercialism strikes like record companies and nation wide TV these days. And then some one sticks a label to it, usually the manager type of person in a record company who knows nothing about music anyway, but has his walls plastered with sales charts. A lot of the stuff i find in record shops like Floyd's is labeled Cajun, and when i play an example it sounds like a very mediocre poppy stuff to my ears. But thats personal i guess. About culture & Mardi Gras i dunno, but it's probably just as Carnival here in the south; i once visited this event as a youngster, and avoided it ever after. People have fun there though.
"Pure" Cajun music as it probably has been played for ages in a more rural area and when there were no or maybe only a few radio's around, and no one traveled much, has been through quite some changes. To name a few: accordions moving in, drums, steel-guitars, amplification. All probably necessary developments to please a more general crowd, and oft at the cost of "purism".
The same has happened to all sorts of folk music, like country (from a purer "Old Time"), blues, Irish, you name it. And when a popular crowd pleaser like Hank Williams Sr put some of his entertainment powers and clout in to it, things move rapidly in another direction. Besides if you strive for purisms. some times you'll need outsiders to point out the real values of the ways of old. Sam Ash? Hank probably did more good than bad for the Cajuns.
By the way, what is an outsider? We humans are very much interconnected by genes, and we all breath the same air. In almost all human cultures they play fiddle by the way, and borders and fences are usually put up by sick minds protecting the stuff they took or stole from their neighbors. For me personally: my grand mother's roots were in France too where her family was forced to flee from Catholic fanatics prosecuting their beliefs. But that's politics yet again.
PS found these definitions in a dictionary on the noun-subject of culture. especiallt number 7 is nice, if you consider Pure Cajun Music as an inflammation of the soul:
1.
the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
2.
that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.
3.
a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.
4.
development or improvement of the mind by education or training.
5.
the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
6.
Anthropology . the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.
7.
Biology .
a.
the cultivation of microorganisms, as bacteria, or of tissues, for scientific study, medicinal use, etc.
b.
the product or growth resulting from such cultivation.
8.
the act or practice of cultivating the soil; tillage.
9.
the raising of plants or animals, esp. with a view to their improvement.
10.
the product or growth resulting from such cultivation.
- Nout
this is such a fascinating thread. such wonderfully thought out ideas and concepts. i have really found myself nodding in agreement. it's really helpful to hear the perspective of the "Cajuns" with regards to their culture. i have always felt that the music is such a gem....to be respected and honored when played......but there is that danger that Dewey Balfa expressed when he was talking about turning the music "into a museum exhibit"......i take that to mean not evolving or moving forward.
i appreciate all of the comments......they address a conflict i sometimes have playing the traditional music of another culture. the stuff grabs me and goes right to the heart. then it comes out of me combined with my cultural influences and musical background.
roger w
The nice thing about such a rich culture (if I can still use this word) is that there's something in it for everybody.
For some it's the food, for others the language or the music and dance.
I love to listen to, and to play Cajun music without having to watch cockfights, having to eat boudin, or be eaten myself (by mosquitos)
Isn't that great?!?
Gentlemen and ladies, What you folks have here is something very unique...A group of musicians that are very proud of the culture and heritage with the desire to keep it alive forever. I have been posting a few questions for the the last year. I am from Chicago area but now live in Kentucky. I have been traveling to Louisiana for about thirty years and have a lot of great friends in Baton Rouge, New Orleans and Houma. I have been listenining to the music for many many years and a year ago started attempting to play the box and actually still attempting to play. I have tons of CD's and books and most of my friends know more about the cajun culture and the music than they ever did. In fact when they come to my home or boat for a shrimp or crawfish boil they ask for cajun music. And now they ask are you still playing that little thing. Sometimes I wonder what they arereally talking about but the point I make is Big Nick, Marc Savoy, Bernie Allan have all helped encourage me to continue to play even though no one around here can help me with questions. So I encourage you to help the youngsters and new and old and YOUR nuic and culture will live on....
Chuck from Kentucky
Amen, guess that's what is pretty important ... keep young sprouts alive, and something will grow up and bloom when it is their turn ... even if you just sit around in the backyard or living room and honk your Cajun Horn some thing will happen: you'll get heard, even if it's only by your own soul getting at piece with the troubles and tribulations in daily life.
PS Nick, i think you did right on removing some non-relevant personal obtrusive & cocky stuff from this discussion; it's been quite a good one so far by the way. But since Joey's, mine and other comments above on the removed quarrel, are now sort of standalone & commenting on fried air you could maybe take 'em off too. Normally i am not a great fan of censorship, but there shouldn't be a personal quarrel being fought over at gunpoint in this nice & sometimes even sophisticated Bravenet Saloon. Sometimes we need a sheriff here too alas keeping the peace. Well done. Leave that sort of business to be fought over outside it in the parking lot, so we can enjoy nice beers without someone knocking them over. -Nout
Nout, Nick didn't remove the post on his on. I requested that he remove my post as I would perfer to settle the difference in person. So we don't need a "sheriff" we just need to do our part to keep this topic on target.
Le Piquant
Istre is east for all you Cajun culturalist experts.
Le Piquant
I'm not seeing the flame war some are speaking of. Apparently it's been taken off the board. I do see a genuinely good exchange of a topic that is always a layer just under the surface on this beige website.
Seems to me that the majority of folks here are accordion enthusiasts. Most folks on here are beginners to intermediates. Half of those folks are from Cajun country and the other half are outsiders. There's also a smattering of seasoned players who are semi-professional to professional and from both sides of the state line. Ninety percent of all Braves are Cajun mavens. Seven percent of them consume only zydeco and 3 percent consume both without any caution.
(This is like a cold front, a dry line, an upper level low, and a tropical storm converging in one spot. Bad weather is in the forecast unless you can appreciate what rain can do for your crops and water table... then laugh off the thunder and lightning.)
Okay, out of this total, all Braves like a song or two or thousands from another genre of music. I think it's safe to say that even the most hard-nosed Cajun person likes a country song or a swamp pop song.
I like the museum display analogy from Dewey. Cajun music is exactly like that. It's preserved and displayed in hallowed halls and the traditional players are the curators. It's very specific stuff with same list of songs that are played correctly. Occasionally a living artist comes up with a new song that is adopted by the curators and put in the Modern Art section of the museum, but it's rare. Plus they have to be from Acadiana.
Nothing wrong with that. If that's your baby, you take care of it. If that's your mantra, follow it. Here are some random quotes from people all over the world that share the feed to need...
"I like jazz. I only like traditional trombone jazz that only comes from and came from New Orleans. Kid Ory is the king. Thelonious Monk and Miles Davis... those guys are not jazz artists."
"Narciso Jimenez is the only thing I listen to. What Selena and Los Lonely Boys did to my Tex Mex makes me want to ball up and cry."
"When it comes to blues I find it difficult to believe Stevie Ray Vaughn fits into that category. The only blues is early blues period. Anything after Robert Johnson cannot be consider blues, especially played by happy middle class white guys."
So opinions and facts collide. One thing to note on the factual side... music evolves and it's okay if it does. Whoever is evolving it probably likes the original brand too... although I'm guessing Metallica isn't into Deep Purple... and they aren't into Chuck Berry. Then again, those bands aren't playing "folk" music... or are they?
I agree with almost all of the comments that I read on here but I don't always agree with everyhting and I don't even waste my time with those things.I get on here for help from all of you guys who are the pros and for advice. One topic I think you guys spend to much time arguing about is who builds the best accordion in Louisiana.I certainly don't know much about all of the boxes built in Louisiana and I would not spend my time arguining with any of you about who builds the best accordion, wether it be a Martn, Swallow, Bon Cajun, Acadian or whichever but I do ask which boxes are cheap and not worth the money... I think you guys spend way to much time arguing about that but I guess the same holds true for guitars or any other instrument for that matter.
I look for posts that are helpful,humorous and informative not for someones nasty comment because someone else likes a different brand.
I appreciate the posts like the one from Herbert..Knowing your accordion backwards and forwards.. That's great stuff and i applaud those kind of posts...Thats the stuff that will keep the music alive and well.
Keep up the good wor.....
Is this a really big S N O W?????
Ed I used to listen to Wolfman Jack when I lived in Southern California. He had a line.
Le Piquant
The April 2011 Dewey Balfa Cajun & Creole Heritage Week
