Welcome to old and new friends who are interested in discussing Cajun and other diatonic accordions, along with some occasional lagniappe....



CAJUN ACCORDION DISCUSSION GROUP

 

General Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
View Entire Thread
Re: CD or not CD?

I notice that more companies are not including liner notes with their cds. For the recent release on Valcour of Dennis McGee recordings by Gerard Dole, there were notes, but much more extensive notes you had to download from the Web site.

I preferred Rounder's approach of including a PDF file right on the CD along with the music. This is what they did with the recent release, Louisiana Cajun and Creole Music: The Newport Field Recordings. (This is not really new music or even new to CD. It all appeared on two previous CDs on Rounder, Louisiana Cajun Music from the Southwest Prairies, Volumes 1 and 2, but the expanded notes make this one deserving of a Grammy, in my opinion. Those are "desert island" recordings, as I mentioned in my Amazon reviews of the two cds individually).

I am just starting to buy stuff from iTunes, but most of what I want is not available there and probably never will be. I find more of what I want on CD, but most of what I want is not even there yet and never will be, lost to history, I'm afraid, because of society's technological preferences. Leaving things to the market is a poor excuse for a cultural preservation plan!

Re: CD or not CD?

Hmmm....

I was told by a young guy in the music industry that , generally, young folks under 25 or so, will not buy CDs. They will download music on-line, somehow, legal or otherwise, and expect to pay absolutely nothin'...they have no qualms about doing it and don't seem to care about the implications for the artist or industry.

Over 30s will still buy CDs but that's a reducing market....guess due to GFC issues, less disposable income and some ' seniors '( LOL) learning gradually to access sites like iTunes.
BTW..I tried to buy tracks off of USA Amazon and WALMART BUT IT'S iMPOSIBLE TO DO HERE IN aUSTRALIA AS A WARNING MESSAGE COMES UP AND A BLOCKER THAT SAYS BUYING AND DOWNLOADING IN OUR ' REGION' IS A BREACH OF LAWS AND STATUTES. ( oops, hit the caps lock button accidentally ).

I think it may be, from what your telling me, is that many artists are just producing CDs and marketing it themselves and not listing necessarily with the 'big gun' labels in order to avoid reductions in the slim margins achievable with CD sales.
I note also that artists are reducing overheads...like Cedric Benoit has " Live from Blue Moon Saloon " out on CD...a real good CD.... but that's one way of avoiding studio time and the associated costs.

Seems to me listing with iTunes is a bit of an unsatisfactory process as a band needs to sell CDs, not just individual tracks, in order to recover record production costs.
Our band paid mastering and packaging costs and we sell our CD at gigs and have it in a few record stores around the traps ( not very successful )...we'll break even at the end of the day ...which I guess is OK but hardly something to get excited about.

I do know that people like to get a CD, have it signed by the band members, ..it's sorta like a tactile , communication experience thing...

Anyone have any actual experience with listing with iTunes , Amazon, CD Baby, etc???

Re: CD or not CD?

oops..I meant Cedric Watson..not Benoit

Re: CD or not CD?

I wish more of those live type cd's would be available. With other types of music I never like live, but with Cajun, I much prefer recordings from live shows or back yards than studio recordings.

And I'll miss the cd label when cd's are gone.

Re: CD or not CD?

Darryl

BTW..I tried to buy tracks off of USA Amazon and WALMART BUT IT'S iMPOSIBLE TO DO HERE IN aUSTRALIA AS A WARNING MESSAGE COMES UP AND A BLOCKER THAT SAYS BUYING AND DOWNLOADING IN OUR ' REGION' IS A BREACH OF LAWS AND STATUTES. ( oops, hit the caps lock button accidentally ).



find a USA based proxy....
or an application that allows you to
set you IP country code information


that will get you around the country restrictions...
(from my understanding hee hee)
:big grin:

Re: CD or not CD?

Well, I know the world is changing. At least to me, many of these "changes" are not for the better. Newspapers are shrinking, book stores are disappearing; so are record stores; but I think that there will (at least for the near future) be CDs.

The biggest problem is knowing what recordingsd to look for. If one knows what Cajun recordings to look for, I think you can find them. If you just want to browse to find out what is available, it's a bit harder. For Cajun recordings, how do you find out what to look for?

Well, one can learn a lot about new Cajun recordings by listening to Pete Bergeron's daily radio show at krvs.org. He frequently plays songs from new recordings. Even if you do not want to buy from Floyd's, their catalogue lists a great many recordings, even if they favor those on the Swallow label. Check Arhoolie's website; check the website for Valcour Records - Joel Savoy has released some really good Cajun CDs.

At least for me, good traditional Cajun recordings do no grow old; so it doeasn't really matter how long they have been out - they are timeless.

I have bought a good many Cajun CDs on ebay and half.com. You can often find even new Cajun recordings at a good price. It does help, however, to look for some specific CD or artist. If you search using something general like "Cajun," chances are that you can find recordings, but you may have to wade through a lot of extraneous stuff. Elderly Instruments also carries Some Cajun recordings. I know that Neal buys a lot from Amazon. He has also written some very good reviews on Amazon of Cajun recordings.

This Board is also a good source for finding about new recordings, and you can often buy the CDs directly from the artists who post here, e.g., Gainey has an excellent new CD, and he was involved in the recent CD by Ellis Vanicor.

Then there are others. Ryan Brunet has a nice new CD that you can order from his website (When I tries to figure out how to order his CD from his website, Ryan told me to click on the icon, but there were a number of icons on the screen, and the only one that looked it might work was to download the CD. After some discussion, he finally sent me the regular CD. I like it much better that way.)

There are also a couple of really nice CDs that I have to admit I'm not real sure how to get. One is by Paul Daigle and Jason Frey titled "Daigle-Frey Affair;" another is by Jason Frey and Courtney Granger titled "Music From the Cajun Prairie" or something like that. I think that they actually made these recordings to sell at Augusta, but both are really good. I'm not trying to be flip about this, but I honestly do not know how to get them except to purchase then directly from Paul and Jason.

Anyway, I don't think that the demise of CDs is eminent, but it is often a lot harder to find them these days. If we stop buying them, though, they may well eventually disappear - and as far as I am concerned that would be really sad.

So just keep looking and listening...it's not impossible to learn about new recordings, and it a lot easier to find them if you know what you are looking for.

Jack Bond

Re: CD or not CD?

theres been at least 10 releases in the past two years. CD stores suck. they never have what you are looking for. The only one I've had consistency with is Floyd's in ville platte. The best bet is to go and see the bands you like. If they have a new cd they will let you know. If you're curious about other artists ask them after the show they will know who else is recording as well. Post on a web-site like this and ask for good cds to purchase. Listen to KLSU cajun radio show online. Go to their websites. They offer the Cd's there either by shipping or some sort of on-line middle man such as I-tunes. Valcour records is a good site to visit. There you can also download the jacket (if there is one). Personally I like the idea of no jacket. If we're that curious as to who is playing what it could make us get off our ass and go see them at their next venue. If we don't understand the french we can study harder, write letters, or send e-mails. either way it will get us more involved with the artists, other enthusiasts, and with the culture. As to your question with the online sites. I use them frequently. I haven't bought an actual CD in a while (well i bought some at festival acadian), but I do make hard copies of all my cds and normally I would prefer to buy the actual CD. It is alot cheaper, easier, and environmentally friendly to buy them digitally and thats why I've made the switch.

Re: CD or not CD?

tcadien,

I agree with most of your suggestions; but I believe that Darryl, who masked the original question, might have a hard time doing some of thethings you suggest - he lives in Australia.

As for itunes and ipods, I know that I may just be eccentric, but I think that there is a big difference to actually owning a CD and owning something that is out in the ether - and giving money to a company that doesn't really care about the music, just wanting to sell their little gadgets to make some money from the hardware and the musicians. Yeah, Jerry and I have a lot in common!

Jack Bond

Re: CD or not CD?

"Yeah, Jerry and I have a lot in common!"
Ditto Jack.
Le Piquant

Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

I just loaded some Cajun and Creole CDs on my iTunes player and noticed that the preassigned genre labels were World Music, Traditional, Country/Folk etc. Who do you contact to correct this? If you are a record label or band doing this, how come? That is really disappointing.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Neal,
When you submit a CD to make available on iTunes, the submitter has to input the track order and title. Genre is selected from a drop down menu and Cajun is not available. No one submits directly to iTunes. You use a variety of third party services. Depending on the service you use, you may, or may not, be able to select a secondary genre. I always select Folk first, then World. I have looked into having the genre added, but no luck, yet. Once downloaded to your computer, you can change that.

Also, the form inputs are there for linernotes and such. You can input them if you want to, but iTunes doesn't offer this service, yet.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Neal,

once you have downloaded the music to your i tunes player you can go in and manually change the music to the genre "cajun". If you have the latest version of i tunes this should be available to you. All you have to do is bring up the album in the library, then highlight all the tracks (this can be done by highlighting the first track, hold down shift, then click the last track. it should highlight all of the tracks). After you have highlighted all the tracks right click on them, a menu will come up and the first selection should be "get info". at the bottom of the "get info" menu there is a "genre" selection the "genre" cajun should be one of the many to choose from.

Hope this helps. Since Cajun music is a sub-genre of american folk music I doubt that anytime soon the corporate music world will add it as it's own category. I know it sucks, but in the grand scheme of things we are a small proportion of the pie. Have a great night !!

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Cajun is available in the drop down menu for me. I know HOW to change Cow Island Hop from World Music to Cajun. Thanks for the help, but that wasn't my question. My question is, why was it labeled World Music in the first place? Why should it be the person who knows the correct genre who has to go through the trouble of correcting it on his system? Why not the person who wants to incorrectly label it World Music. Country/Folk, or something like that?

It's not good advertisement for the Cajun music genre to mislabel it this way. That is my point.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Neal,
Just to clarify, the iTunes service, iTunes software and third party submitters are not one and the same. If you are using iTunes to listen to music, and you have music on it that is labeled "Cajun", then Cajun will show up as an option for genre in your iTunes program.

Third party services exist to take on the liability of selling digital music. Some require an actual hardcopy to be mailed in, others require signing an extensive contract stating copyright ownership. This is to prevent every Tom, Dick and Harry from uploading whatever CD they have in their collection and selling it on iTunes and violating copyrights.

The process of submitting is done completely through the third party's website and doesn't involve the iTunes software, at all. They build their platform using the database fields provided by the iTunes service. They have no control over the genre choices available. For my last CD submission, I began using a new service because I was dissatisfied with the previous one. When I submitted our CD, I typed in Cajun first, then Folk second. It warned me that if my first choice wasn't available, it would default to the second, and so on. Of course, Cajun wasn't available. So, in answer to your question, it isn't the submitter, or the third party who has the problem. It is the iTunes service, which is who I have tried to contact about adding Cajun to the list.I'm sure I am not the first to try to contact them. Perhaps, if enough people petition them, they will add it to the list; however, it would only affect anything added after they add the genre. Once submitted to the database, changes cannot be made without taking it down, then paying a fee to resubmit.

In addition, any payments that you may receive from sales on iTunes, come from the third party and are in no way related to the iTunes account used for purchasing.

New CDs...

I'm not close to the scene although I've following the evolution of several bands that I admire, and the birth of new ones. I haven't noticed a reduction of new CDs or material. My latest pleasant discovery is LES MALFECTEURS with Ryan Brunet, Blake Miller etc. I got to see them live at Blackpot two weeks ago and they rock! Their CD is equally great and I look forward to their next one.
Maz

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Thanks Ganey! Sounds like it's iTunes to contact about adding a genre for Cajun. I could have sworn that some of the cds I have added to my iTunes already were labeled Cajun.

Neal

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Mais, that's easy, cause labels don't work in La.

I think I'm gonna get that labeled on my headstone.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Labeling Cajun music as "folk" is not a mislabel. If you knew the definition of the word folk or the command thereof, you would understand this. At least the music is available. It's really not that big a deal that it is not specifically labeled Cajun.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

The labels are important to libraries, archives, scholars, critics, music stores, etc.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

'iTunes need copyright declarations', hey Ganey...hooey...now THERE's another whole new thread that would make all the others pale into significance...COPYRIGHT !!

Seems to me that as long as you have 2 notes or more in succession in your recently composed song , you've technically breached some copyright somewhere !!..yeah, I know that's an exaggeration but hey, where's the line in the sand when it comes to copyright.?

.........
That iTunes protocol seems to be multi layered and potentially difficult..WELL DONE Ganey on getting through it for your new album...

So..where are we at? CD or not CD?...seems there's a declining level of CD stocks at retail level.
Quality and quantity of CDs is a bit subjective depending on where you are in the world, what you expectations are, and what access you have to the Cajun and Zydeco network in particular.

Artists are doing their own marketing more and more, and on-line track/album listing for recording artists seems to be the way to go as long as you comply with all the legalities and are able to wade your way through the mire ( from the view point of the artist/band wanting to list ).

CD's are the sentimental favourites still..but you would have to say the best days are behind them.
Certainly the fact that you can buy albums on-line and download them at a competitive price avoids the crippling packaging and postage on-costs when you but CDs from Amazon,Walmart, CD Baby, etc etc..

Hmmmmm..next album our band does, I think I'll just sell acccess codes to the tracks and the buyer can only get that music on-line....a bit disappointing at gigs though..like...here's your sealed envelope..the code can only be used once and will self destruct....LOL.

Thanx all for your input...I guess it's sentiment vs. cyberpace digitalisation....think I know what's gonna win..!!

D.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

For interest..

http://homerecording.about.com/od/duplicatingdistributing/a/Get_On_iTunes.htm

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

I've learned this from personal experience:

"Unless you are a well-known artist with significant regional clout and fanbase, along with some amount of national exposure, your CD is a vanity project -- one that you will be lucky to break even on." -Rick Reid

At the closing of The Music Machine in Eunice (since reopened?) I spoke with the owner and Swamp & Roll personality, Todd Ortego about it all. Thus was about 8 years ago if beer serves me correctly. His take on it was he couldn't afford to keep the doors open because online sales and downloading (illegal and otherwise) were killing retail record stores. Remember Raccoon Records? Gone.

If you ever get a chance to visit Floyd's Records, chances are, you'll be the only one on the shop. BUT, they stay in business because of their busy mail-order business. They are like the Arhoolie of C/Z. They also pursue their mail marketing aggressively.

Another record store keeping their head above water is The Louisiana Music Factory. BUT, if you've ever been to their store, it's a cool live music venue. Plus they keep on top of all genres of Louisiana Music, and that's a LOT.

I also used to buy a lot of CDs for my radio gig at Music City in Opelousas. The last time I was in there and spoke with the owner, Stephen, he said bands are making fewer CDs and just selling them at gigs. Over a decade, I saw Music City's C/Z selection dwindle down to basically nothing.

Lake Charles Music has a really decent selection of C/Z CDs, but you're likely to be the only person browsing them (moved to the second floor after Rita flooded out the first floor location). The expert recorded music person at the now unmanned counter was a guy named, Russell, R.I.P., a really nice guy who I miss seeing; he echoed the sentiments of all record store owners regarding fewer CD releases and physical sales. He also once said that, "If Floyd's doesn't have it, then we don't have it."

My personal experience as a grassroots artist is this:
1. I used to sell way more CDs back in the 90's
2. I sell more CDs from the stage than from retail outlets
3. I use CDBaby, who has distributed my tracks to iTunes, amazon, and several others

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Rick said..
"Unless you are a well-known artist with significant regional clout and fanbase, along with some amount of national exposure, your CD is a vanity project -- one that you will be lucky to break even on." -Rick Reid

AMEN, Rick...that's exactly why I resisted my band members overtures for 4 years to do an album/CD. I could see what was gonna happen.

Yep...lots of ego strokin' for some of the guys.

Sure...lots of compliments and airplay on some radio stations..but if you put a $ value on my, and the other guys, input time to the album, we'd be WAY down the gurgler..as they say !
..break even seems to be our outcome and for that I'm thankful...and that's only because we kept a lid on the process eg. recorded at my home studio with Apple Mac technology, mixing done by me, friends of friends in the mastering and packaging industry helping out with discounted fees , etc etc.
I think my all up time input ( composing, bed tracks, computer time, band rehearsals and recording, administration, mixing, etc ) one way or another was in excess of 300 hours...and that's not counting the frequent waking up in the middle of the night with my mind on the album.

....but as a business deal, absolutely not worth doing a CD...would rate as a poor business decision when you look at the books objectively. If it was another business i'd have been given the sack !!!

Musically, however, I'd have to say the process of composing, recording , etc. made us better musicians ( more attention to detail ) and un-earthed new original material that has gone down really well at gigs....which makes me feel good...but , it's funny, somehow I always knew they'd go down well.

I still have some band members asking about doing the next CD....hmmmmmmmmmm !

D.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Darryl said..

"Musically, however, I'd have to say the process of composing, recording , etc. made us better musicians ( more attention to detail ) and un-earthed new original material that has gone down really well at gigs....which makes me feel good...but , it's funny, somehow I always knew they'd go down well."

and AMEN to that!

So you see, to CD or not CD comes with both rewards and regrets. It's a catch 22 for bands that are trying to legitimize themselves and keep up with the competition. While it is true that creating a professional CD is a break-even venture at best for most bands, here's a little devil's advocate to mellow the brew with -- Here's why one "should" CD:

From amateur to professional -- the quickest way to make the jump from dabbler to ace in the eyes of the world, is to record a full-length, high quality CD.

Gigs -- without a professionally produced CD, your chances of landing important and rewarding gigs, are greatly minimized.

Building a following -- people that like your music will want to take it with them wherever they go and they will also want to share their zeal of your music with others. A CD is the easiest way to reach your fans -- and their friends -- when you are not gigging.

Exposure -- with a CD to market, your band's visibility will flourish more, especially if the music is good and the CD was recorded and produced with high quality means. If it is, then radio airplay and other good ego stroking will soon follow.

Progress and time encapsulation -- once you've released your first CD, the world will be expecting another within a year. If you don't continue to create, you'll be swept aside for the band that is showing progress. Also, a CD is a great way to preserve your personal music history; one that you can enjoy the rest of your life, and a legacy that will live long after you've left this planet.

This has been my personal observation with all this CD recording stuff. I just released my forth one, there were three others that basically fell apart at the end and never made it to final production due to money, egos, or band collapse. So getting to a shrink-wrapped product is a helluva achievement!

Rick

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Yup..some real good stuff there ..thanx for puttin' your thoughts down Rick..I'm chewin' that all over as I write.....LOL.

...it's quite an interesting exercise to put down thoughts from a music creators viewpoint and then read a music consumers take on things....


BTW..
Don't ya have a quiet chuckle when folks come up to you at gigs and ask you if you could play this or that song....like right here and now...
Ya just smile and say...'sorry, no...but we'll have a look at it and see what we can do for the next gig'.

Ha...I'm sure some folks think we're just karaoke or jukebox robots..shove the coin in and press the buttons.....but we love 'em all the same !.

Actually....it's kinda flattering to think they've been enthused enough by the band to go that next step and ask a question...so we always give them the respect they deserve.

I'm done....time for bed here..and you guys are just about ready to be steppin' out of the shower and throwin' down a coffee and whatever for breakfast...Crazy World !!...hmmm.. a song title....stop me pleeeease !

later..Darryl.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Plenty of fodder for new threads running amuck in this long thread! And Good Morning! Err G'Day!

I get the jukebox requests and can't figure it. Especially stuff that's contrasting genres, like new country stuff -- Garth Brooks, Kenny Chesney. Why on Earth would someone request stuff like that when we don't even breach anywhere close to that Nashburg muck? Plus none of us listen to that stuff.

I think the most reasonable requests we've had consistently over the years is for Sublime tunes. We don't play any, but their stuff is a possibility.

People are funny. Especially the human ones.

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

"People are funny. Especially the human ones."
Providing of course you mean in the particular and not in the universal.
Le Piquant

Re: Who assigns these GENRES on iTunes?

Huzzah! Yes!

... and they taste funny too...

Re: CD or not CD?

I may go to Lafayette and not visit family but I won't pass up Walt's Record Shop on Jefferson. Bought a LP by Joe Bonsall I had not seen. I think I have them all now. But I will keep looking. Give my the hard copy. If it is available I will buy it.
Le Piquant

Re: CD or not CD?

I think you mean Walter Broussard's in the Pioneer Trading Post on Johnston Street just south of Acadiana mall? If so, I like that place for used records! I recommended it to people who were looking for records after the Festivals Acadiens, but I never heard if they found it. I got quite a few Goldband 45s there on my two past visits.

Re: CD or not CD?

Hi Neal,

I didn't go to your address. Not the time. And I regret. I loved Floyd Records Shop, of course, and Abbevile Records Shop and also Music Factory (N.O).. I found my other CDs on the Festival and at Savoy M.C. But with Internet, I already have the principal.

Marc.

Re: CD or not CD?

Hey Marc! Glad you found your music! There's always stuff at Marc Savoy's that you can't find anywhere else.

Re: CD or not CD?

Yes Neal, at Savoy M.C., for my collection I found 3 CDs by Maurice Barzas and a the last CD by Dennis Mc Gee.
And Tina's smile.
And the boss was away........

Marc.

Re: CD or not CD?

Yes Neal, I am a regular there. I told him I had the LP-Belton Ricard Meets Aldus Roger and he sure perked up. I will have to bring it next time to show him.
Le Piquant

Re: CD or not CD?

That's the record shop in the same building as the antique store by the Acadiana Mall. I've been there too. Has anyone seen that brown Magnolia accordion for sale in the antique part of the store? It had been there for a good while. The guy was trying to sell it for $1800 if I recall correctly. I asked him to play on it and he allowed me to. It looked pretty good and was in good shape, but it didn't play or sound good at all. A "DUD". It sounded like it was in some sort of tune, but the action and feel and the sound of its voice were just a mess. Not to be pessimistic, but that $1800 price was a little too high for that accordion in all fairness. I handed it back to the feller and tried not to act as disgusted as I felt. If one of you guys happened to buy it, I hope you were able to have it worked on and put right.

Off subject I know, but the Trading Post was mentioned and the overpriced Magnolia came to mind.

Re: CD or not CD?

Rick...and others...refer my post a few lines back.

Also, in response to lepiquant, neal , hebert etc.

I guess it's nice that recordings and repackaging of old artists, most of whom have passed on...are made available to enthusiasts and archivists.

My spin on that is that it probably says a lot about what's actually happening right now, today, in the C & Z recording industry....ie. not a lot !..comparatively.
And where are the larger than life C & Z artists/characters now??..oh man, I feel another thread happening...better stop !

Great big list of Grammy nominees!

Grammy nominees
Hope this link from the Times of Acadiana works. Lots of music came out this past year, looking at the long list of Grammy nominees.

Of course, they never seem to nominate any of the historic stuff. It's a young man's game as far as Grammy goes, but not in the business of worldwide sales. I bet in Europe they scoop up the old stuff quicker than the new, when they can. The copyright laws in Europe are allowing some of our old music to go into the public domain there and be released maybe 50 years before it ever will be here. That is not necessarily a negative reflection on the current music scene, just a matter of economics and crazy monopoly here in the U.S.



Jamey Hall's most excellent Cajun Accordion Music Theory

Brett's all new Cajun Accordion Music Theory for all keys!

LFR1.gif - 1092 Bytes The April 2011 Dewey Balfa Cajun & Creole Heritage Week

augusta.gif - 6841 Bytes

Listen to Some GREAT Music While You Surf the Net!!
The BEST Radio Station on the Planet!