"Should sound the same right? No, not really. What gives that song its uniqueness is the runs of notes that come from playing in 3rd position."

This is very apparent in the song "Donnez-Moi, Les" (Marc Savoy, Joe Bonsall), where he switches keys, same song, but definitely with a different feel and sound.

My favorite position to play "Scott Playboy" is in 1st, which is usually called either "Old Crowley Two Step" or "Old Crowley Two Step". I like having the bass.

Talking of "Donnez moi les" the one I like for a key change is "Petite ou le gros", have by no means got it down to a fine art yet.
Anyway- I should be pluggin on with "Chanson de Mardi gras", God knows what position I'm doing that one in!

I understand what you mean Jon, and it makes sense. Only the numbering of the positions is still a mystery to me.
When you play in Dm on a C-box, you call that that fourth position?
And in Am? is that 5th? Or the other way round? And why?

I have played one Cajun (F on a C box)and two a few Irish tunes (G on a D-box) in the "third" position, and what strikes me is this:
- it's a hard job. Everything is upside down/ the other way round
- you can NOT use the basses otherwise you create a havoc
- the fourth note in the scale is a half higher than normal (the Lydian scale) and has to be skipped most of the time
- the good thing: you have to push and pull a lot more than in 1st position, which gives a lot of swing to your playing.

1st, 2nd and 3rd positions are practical since most songs are played in either 1st or 2nd position. A few are played in 3rd. Considering a C box, a VERY rare number of songs are played in Am or Dm. These keys just aren't very practical to play in because the notes available are so limited that its not practical to give them a position number.

And yes those are very good observations in regards to playing in the 3rd position.

Its whats known as the "modes". I think 3rd position is the "Dorian" mode.
Back in the days before chromatic instruments musicians used these modes to play tunes in certain scales, I think it comes from the greek.
I remember Chris Miller posting a version of "Greensleeves" which illustrates medaevil modal playing really well, its a really good exercise.
Please bear in mind that what I've said might be a load of old swamp water, I just get snippets of music theory but never take it in enough to interfere with my playing.

The position numbers that we refer to on an accordion are not based on modal positions of scales. That's something altogether different.

I'm not sure if the 3rd position is actually a different mode. You are still playing a major scale (Ionian mode) using the 1 (which would be F in the 3rd position of a C accordion). Someone like Larry English or Ganey could maybe enlighten us.

Can somebody SIMPLY explain to us newer guyswhat the flyin' crap those 1rst, 2nd, positions are? What do they mean with respect to the 10 buttons?
Thanks...I hope.

Tim

It's kinda like lettin' an Englishman explain the rules of cricket to an American.

Such as, when you go down, you go up, and when you go up, you go down.
Position 1 usually starts at button # 3, which is up, but down.
Position 2 usually starts at button # 5, which is neither up or down, but in the middle.
Position 3 usually starts at button # 8, which is down, but up.

Simple, right.

JB

JB, Compared to this explanation you sound like it's quite easy ...



-Nout

If it hasn't embedded, youtube- "mr B straight outta surrey"

When trying to SIMPLY explain music, its not always easy or possible. Often times something does not become simple until after the concept is understood and upon reflection one wonders why it was ever so difficult to understand in the first place. But I'll try.

A "C" accordion is tuned to the key of C, a "D" accordion is tuned to the key of D, and so on...

Playing in the key that the accordion is tuned to is the primary key that accordion is designed to be played in. So for a C accordion the primary key that accordion is designed to be played in, is in the key of C. Each button is tuned to the C major scale, and every note of the C major scale is available. VOILA! the 1st position. The 1st position is simply playing in the key that the accordion is tuned to. 1st position is the most commonly used position. This primary key is the only key on the accordion which has a full tonal range. And the bass side matches perfectly! The rest will be lacking to some degree.

There is a secondary key that matches up well with the primary key. This secondary key is based on the 5th note of the primary scale that the accordion is tuned to. On an accordion tuned to C, that secondary key would be the 5th note of the C major scale. Take your accordion out, start on the C note, walk up the scale till you hit the 5th note. This 5th note of the C major scale is a "G". Playing in this secondary key is playing the... wait for it......BAM! 2nd position. And this position is the 2nd most used position after the 1st position. Bass side does not really match that well but its do-able.


After those two positions things get much harder. The 3rd position is based off of the 4th note of the primary scale that the accordion is tuned to. Less notes are available, its harder to play in and that's why not that many songs are recorded in 3rd position and the subsequent positions that follow.

If you are looking for more, Ann Savoy discusses these positions on page 1 and 2 of her book "Cajun Music A Reflection of a People".